Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 014-027
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 1971 at 8:07 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/014-027

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:01] yeah hello hello don't interrupt your dinner but i wanted to know oh where are you i'm glad he liked it all right that's nice and safe you know we uh rogers was there i didn't i of course acknowledge him when i
[0:30] spoke, but I didn't say anything about him on the foreign policy.
[0:34] I was speaking to the whole network and also, after all, in New York, there's a hell of a lot of people that don't approve of what he's done in Israel, so I just didn't mention it.
[0:56] Let me ask you, what did you think of Laird's performance today?
[0:59] I guess that's why I just got up on Siemens.
[1:05] I don't care much about Siemens, but God damn it, Siemens is not our friend, is he?
[1:15] Well, Mr. President, you have been trying to get rid of him for three years, Mr. Secretary of the Air Force.
[1:20] I know.
[1:20] Is he our friend or not, or what is he?
[1:22] He's basically one of those intellectuals.
[1:30] That's right.
[1:33] But I don't think he's a guy we can work with too well.
[1:35] I don't have any alternative, but I just think you ought to try to find one.
[1:42] But I had to say that I just didn't take this.
[1:45] You just can't walk in here and say, look, here's the ones we're going to have.
[2:00] good well it'll shake him up a little mel needs it'll affect him a little but i'm telling you his uh his line and so forth told me about the meeting yeah right he didn't take mel's line but he uh
[2:24] Because Mel had gotten to him.
[2:45] Well, his worry is also that you'll reveal his association with Daniel.
[2:46] And it's another complicit instruction.
[2:47] Oh, you think he's worried about you?
[2:48] Oh, yeah.
[2:48] And he's very sensitive.
[2:49] Does he want to speak to you?
[2:49] My worry is, my feeling is that I don't know whether he's associated with Daniel.
[2:51] But I feel if you go to him long enough, then you're going to be able to speak to all of them.
[2:54] is what it is to us.
[3:01] On the other hand, Henry, in January, you see what we're, Bill makes one point which may be valid, and that is that if we make a two-month announcement in January, we've got to make a big one.
[3:13] Yeah.
[3:13] But what can we say then?
[3:17] That's the point.
[3:18] We can say enough, by the way.
[3:18] You see what I mean?
[3:19] Well, then you can, what I would do in cancer is, today I'm going down to whatever the residual bullet is, and should I, but I wouldn't call it a residual bullet, I don't see at all what you're doing there.
[3:40] Except that if I took it as a real thing, I'd need to do it again, or I'd just forget it.
[3:42] issue out of the way at that point.
[3:48] If negotiations fail, you've really got to get the... You were starting to tell me about Newsweek and Gandhi.
[4:10] First of all, Pakistan.
[4:31] And I've really made an impression on it.
[4:32] Thank you.
[4:32] Thank you.
[4:33] Thank you.
[4:36] the point was that they said Kennedy is now going to try to push them into these things.
[5:00] What?
[5:01] Cutting off aid?
[5:01] Yeah.
[5:01] But that is the main thing.
[5:02] They are not even going to be on Pakistan.
[5:02] I think you might just hear it.
[5:03] But they literally discussed Vietnam until the meeting was two hours old.
[5:05] Then they said, well, what about
[5:06] Then they said, what about the deadline?
[5:19] I said, you know, you can figure out the deadline yourself.
[5:20] Because we've never done this before.
[5:21] We've just played with you.
[5:22] I said, what are we going to do?
[5:22] I said, there was
[5:27] Today, four of the phone-ups helped him ask for a cuppa, saying it was a trial, the greatest meeting they've ever had with anybody.
[5:41] And I was extremely offended.
[5:42] China and Russia
[6:10] I just fixed it all.
[6:27] China, Toronto, Vietnam.
[6:32] And I said, Judy is one of them.
[6:33] Coming back to your conversation with Schoenwald, do you think he's on the level of what he's saying?
[6:35] Oh, yes.
[6:35] He said there's only one.
[6:36] He said it's not each road.
[6:36] There is only one possible path.
[6:38] They're doing that because of...
[7:03] Well, we will talk to Hagen.
[7:30] You talk to him since we have a meeting with Roger at my house.
[7:32] It's really good.
[7:33] You and I were together then.
[8:01] We told him.
[8:01] That's right.
[8:01] Yeah.
[8:02] That's the point.
[8:02] I beg your pardon?
[8:03] So that they can be for something else.
[8:26] Well.
[8:31] I mean, when you have to take a close one, they ought to really come around and say, well, what do you do?
[8:52] They ought to be telling you, Mr. President, you've got so well up your nose, you can go to either that grid with a hundred people behind you, or you can just be fighting people no matter what you do.
[8:56] Well, they'll never say that.
[8:56] Well, we'll get Rogers aboard.
[8:57] We can do that.
[8:57] Yeah.
[8:58] That's what you'll have to go through there.
[8:58] Right.
[8:59] Yeah, well, Laird opened that one up by what he said.
[9:14] I was trying to, you know, play a little.
[9:26] That's right.
[9:27] He can't say he
[9:28] authorized or advocated for except for the fact that once the congress begins trying to get ahead of us
[9:58] Yes, I know, but in January, if we announce it, we then have the yearbook.
[10:18] Well, but they won't have much time to get ahead of you.
[10:20] Well, maybe not.
[10:20] Because they won't get back till January 8th, but you can call the shots anytime you want, and you can still know that you're here.
[10:23] You had anything further from the Germans as to whether they were still in that situation?
[10:24] The Germans.
[10:25] The Germans.
[10:26] As to whether they'll come for the meeting.
[10:30] Oh, yeah, that's all, sir.
[10:37] The date?
[10:44] Well, they're waiting on us.
[10:45] Oh, that's good.
[10:45] They're waiting for Pompidou.
[10:46] Well, he has to come first.
[10:46] That's right, yeah.
[10:47] And then we will have my bride, if you think so, please.
[10:48] Good.
[10:48] See, Rogers doesn't know about those meetings.
[10:49] That's why I said... Oh, I don't give a shit about the Christmas.
[10:51] The main thing is I put the Latin American thing so after the State of the Union.
[11:12] I think you'd be happy to chuck it down there then and get it done.
[11:15] I'd just not have it bothering me beforehand.
[11:16] Isn't that important?
[11:16] I think that's good.
[11:17] But I believe, on the whole, the game plan we had is the better one.
[11:18] Yeah.
[11:18] I really believe that the President and people out there, it's not going to be as good as it used to be.
[11:21] You know?
[11:24] Oh boy, I forgot that.
[11:44] Yeah.
[11:55] Give Nelson my best to tell him I greatly appreciated his remarks.
[12:17] He was awfully good.
[12:17] All out.
[12:18] Great.
[12:19] But he was pleased with the meeting last night.
[12:36] Oh, you're right.
[12:39] You're right.
[12:40] I couldn't agree more.
[12:41] That's right.
[12:42] Right.
[12:42] Oh, you shouldn't go.
[12:44] No.
[12:45] Well, good.
[12:45] That's good.
[12:47] Well, we can...
[12:51] take a look at it in the morning, okay?
[12:56] Good luck.
[12:57] Have a good dinner.