{"conversationCode":"014-084","tapeNumber":14,"conversationNumber":84,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-014-084","startDateTime":"1971-11-12T19:36:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-11-12T19:38:00.000Z","startDate":"12-Nov-1971","startTime":"2:36 PM","endDate":"12-Nov-1971","endTime":"2:38 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Ehrlichman, John D.;","description":"On November 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 2:36 pm to 2:38 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 014-084 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 14-84\n\nDate: November 12, 1971\nTime: 2:36 pm - 2:38 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with the White House operator.\n\n     John D. Ehrlichman\n\nEhrlichman talked with the President.\n\n[See Conversation No. 297-40]\n\n     Ehrlichman's memo regarding Elliot L. Richardson\n\n     The President's veto of an education bill\n          -The President's possible statement\n          -Richardson\n          -Robert H. Finch","filename":["014-084.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:56:04","tapeEnd":"02:57:42","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","White House operator","Ehrlichman, John D."],"prevCode":"014-083","nextCode":"014-085","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":2.8,"text":"Mr. President, Mr. Ehrlichman."},{"start":3.04,"end":3.3,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":3.5,"end":3.92,"text":"There you are."},{"start":4.06,"end":4.89,"text":"Hello, John."},{"start":4.95,"end":9.5,"text":"I got your memorandum with regard to Richardson, and I, of course, will follow that line."},{"start":9.75,"end":13.47,"text":"But I just want to be sure that you know that I have no intention, whatever, of signing that bill."},{"start":13.49,"end":14.07,"text":"Oh, absolutely."},{"start":14.38,"end":14.84,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":14.86,"end":17.54,"text":"Particularly, John, and basically it is philosophical."},{"start":17.7,"end":21.02,"text":"It's the philosophical thing that I can't, I mean, the money is terrible."},{"start":21.04,"end":26.53,"text":"But, you know, I'm simply not going to have families, have kids raised by the government rather than by the families."},{"start":26.55,"end":26.85,"text":"I know that."},{"start":26.91,"end":28.33,"text":"I know Richardson disagrees with that."},{"start":28.35,"end":28.57,"text":"That's it."},{"start":28.59,"end":31.63,"text":"You see, I've got to keep him more or less in line."},{"start":31.67,"end":32.07,"text":"I understand."},{"start":32.09,"end":33.29,"text":"And this will help on that."},{"start":33.55,"end":34.05,"text":"Good."},{"start":34.11,"end":37.82,"text":"Well, I'll just simply say I'm not going to comment upon that until I see the report and..."},{"start":37.8,"end":40.36,"text":"and talk to Secretary Richardson."},{"start":40.38,"end":41.02,"text":"I'm just not going to comment."},{"start":41.04,"end":44.71,"text":"Well, you could give them a little whiff of your philosophical question."},{"start":45.37,"end":50.66,"text":"Well, about saying what concerns me is that I don't want to see people, I mean, children raised by the government rather than by their families."},{"start":50.72,"end":57.17,"text":"Well, now, if you just would say, I entertain some doubts, and I've got to talk to the Secretary about this."},{"start":57.73,"end":60.7,"text":"Well, it's probably not going to come up, but..."},{"start":60.68,"end":63.1,"text":"Because they're more important things, but nevertheless."},{"start":63.28,"end":63.59,"text":"I see."},{"start":63.65,"end":71.94,"text":"We have been telling him and telling him and telling him, and he's been horsing us and horsing us and horsing us, and I don't want to play the ultimate Trump right at this point."},{"start":73.18,"end":73.7,"text":"Yeah, yeah."},{"start":74.25,"end":76.53,"text":"Well, the poor fellow, he's under tremendous heat."},{"start":76.55,"end":77.37,"text":"That's the problem."},{"start":77.63,"end":79.29,"text":"And he's been a damn good soldier."},{"start":79.37,"end":81.2,"text":"We just think what the Christ Finch would have done to us."},{"start":81.28,"end":81.84,"text":"Well, that's right."},{"start":81.88,"end":83.6,"text":"He'd have been over the fence hours ago."},{"start":83.62,"end":84.44,"text":"Let's do our best."},{"start":84.42,"end":85.33,"text":"Okay."},{"start":85.49,"end":87.79,"text":"But I just want you to know, I will never sign that."},{"start":87.97,"end":89.2,"text":"Oh, I'll find some other reason."},{"start":89.22,"end":90.24,"text":"I understand completely."},{"start":90.44,"end":91.22,"text":"But you agree, don't you?"},{"start":91.24,"end":91.78,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":92.1,"end":92.2,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":92.22,"end":92.75,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":92.83,"end":94.91,"text":"But I just have a tactical problem, right?"},{"start":94.95,"end":95.29,"text":"All right."},{"start":95.53,"end":96.06,"text":"Okay, John."},{"start":96.11,"end":96.56,"text":"Very good."},{"start":96.58,"end":96.68,"text":"Fine."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discuss the President’s firm intention to veto an education bill due to philosophical objections regarding the role of government in child-rearing. Nixon addresses his tactical frustrations with Secretary Elliot L. Richardson, who disagrees with the administration's stance and has been hesitant to align with the President's position. Ehrlichman agrees to coordinate with Richardson while acknowledging the political pressure on the Secretary and the President's resolve to ultimately reject the legislation.","topics":["Education bill","Presidential veto","Elliot L. Richardson","Child-rearing policy","Executive branch strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T00:04:04.433Z"},"topicSlugs":["education-bill","presidential-veto","elliot-l-richardson","child-rearing-policy","executive-branch-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":97,"audioFiles":[{"file":"014-084.mp3","bytes":3121896,"durationSec":97.45,"bitrate":256293,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:24.322Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/014-084.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/014-084","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/14/conversation-014-084","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}