Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 015-004
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1971 at 5:23 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Ehrlichman, John D.
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/015-004

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello.
[0:02] Yes, sir.
[0:03] Hi, John.
[0:04] How are you getting along on that Percy matter now?
[0:11] Well, Clark closed the deal.
[0:14] Was he able to close it all right?
[0:15] Right.
[0:17] And I've been tied up this afternoon.
[0:20] Clark sat with him, and they pretty well wrote up a little memorandum of understanding on it.
[0:27] Now, the understanding, of course...
[0:29] does not mean, in my opinion, that we put this in the budget necessarily.
[0:32] That's correct.
[0:33] Don't you agree?
[0:34] Yes, sir.
[0:35] Because we can still go forward with our... Well, that's the only thing that concerned me after I talked to you, that we having...
[0:42] I don't want Percy to say that we have changed one of our major things of postponing welfare reform because of the need to implement it and so forth.
[0:53] No, I think we can take the position that it's just too iffy, that it's a...
[0:58] That it's something that we've agreed to support that we are not introducing.
[1:03] And we're simply going to abide the outcome.
[1:06] I get it.
[1:07] Good.
[1:08] In other words, you're supporting an amendment.
[1:09] Good deal.
[1:10] That's good.
[1:11] Well, I think it's the less of two bad choices.
[1:14] And it postpones and time's on our side.
[1:18] Yeah.
[1:19] Well, it really gets down to the fact that there's a chance of beating one and damn little chance of beating the other, as I understood.
[1:25] That's correct.
[1:27] Because even though we have both governors, the big governors, Gregg and Rockefeller on our side, each for different reasons.
[1:33] One for principle and the other, well, both for principle.
[1:35] Very much.
[1:35] Rockefeller just believes that this sinks revenue sharing, and it does.
[1:39] Right.
[1:40] Isn't that his argument?
[1:41] That's his argument.
[1:42] Well, Reagan's argument is not that.
[1:44] Reagan's argument is that it's going to mean an escalation of welfare costs.
[1:48] And he's dead right about that.
[1:50] It puts it on the top.
[1:51] God damn that Percy for coming up with such a horrible thing.
[1:54] Well, I suppose it's because of trying to help Ogilvy, huh?
[1:57] Well, yes.
[1:59] And then he's up this time.
[2:01] Yep.
[2:02] Yep.
[2:03] I must say, though, that on the Ogilvy thing, will you now go ahead and try to help him with this?
[2:08] We are going to help him.
[2:10] All right.
[2:11] I'd give him his nickels and dimes.
[2:12] Well, the way we do it actually works very much to our advantage because it moves some welfare costs into fiscal 72.
[2:20] I see.
[2:20] And we'll pile them up in this fiscal year.
[2:23] I get it.
[2:25] Which is pretty well busted anyway, and take some of the load off for next year.
[2:29] And that's what you're doing with him?
[2:31] Right.
[2:32] It helps his cash flow problem about $50 million worth.
[2:36] My God, that's a hell of a help.
[2:38] Sure is.
[2:38] What the hell is he screaming about?
[2:40] Well, he's not screaming now, you see.
[2:42] No, he isn't.
[2:43] It's our senator friend who took the bite out of us.
[2:46] I see.
[2:47] But Ogilvy feels pretty good, he should.
[2:49] Oh, he feels fine.
[2:50] Very great.
[2:51] Yeah, because he's going to be able to survive.
[2:52] Sure.
[2:53] Okay, John, thank you.
[2:54] All right.