Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 15 › Conversation 015-008

Nixon phone call with Colson on Public Relations and Legislative Strategy

Wednesday, November 17, 1971 · 7:17 PM–7:25 PM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Colson, Charles W.Conversation015-008 on Tape 15 (tape position 00:04:42–00:12:10)StartWednesday, November 17, 1971 at 7:17 PMEndWednesday, November 17, 1971 at 7:25 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 015-008 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss public relations strategies, specifically instructing staff to frame the Boland Amendment as the equivalent of the Mansfield Amendment to demonstrate the administration's increased legislative strength. The conversation also covers the manipulation of economic statistics, with Nixon expressing frustration over errors in Commerce Department and Bureau of Labor Statistics data and suggesting that political influence might be at play. Additionally, they review polling data from Gallup and Harris, agreeing to highlight more favorable figures to boost the President's image while coordinating efforts to engage AFL-CIO leader George Meany.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Yes, sir.
Chuck, I want to be sure that we get the PR type scally at all to go all out on the idea that the Bullen Amendment is the Mansfield Amendment, you know.
Yes, sir.
Are we doing that?
I haven't yet because I've been working on the labor thing, but I'll get them on it right away.
You just put Scali on that.
You say it's the Boland Amendment is the Mansfield Amendment.
Could you do that?
Which shows the increased strength that we've got now.
Right.
Biggest boat.
Now, they've all played every time we got a little less votes, they played it.
Now, let's make these bastards play if we got a few more.
Because the guys down there have just talked to Mahon and Ahrens.
you know, all our people that vote for him.
Christ, they're just happy to climb.
They think they'd help the country, but the way it is, you call Ziegler and tell him he has to work all night on this.
He has to stay up until 3 o'clock in the morning.
He's got to get the Mayan Amendment.
I mean, the Mansfield Amendment was beat.
Call it the Mansfield Amendment.
I want them all over you.
That's the line, okay?
Yes, sir.
We'll do it.
We'll work on it right now.
Kick them in the ass.
Okay.
Now, on the labor thing, I've...
authorized going ahead on it as uh schultz is trying to get a hold of me now talk to george and uh but he's got to get a hold of him get it worked out we may have to track him down at the racetracks or where have you the timing is perfect mr president at 12 o'clock from another reading i just got after you you and i talked last time that the executive council was going to meet then
And it would have been after the opening session, then the resolutions in the afternoon.
So it's perfect for a nice day.
Well, it's good for a Mars standpoint, too.
I don't have to get up.
That's what I like, getting back to the Harris-Gallup business.
You know, when will Harris go with his?
Do you think he can...
The earliest that he can get it out.
You see, he publishes...
He puts his releases out today for next week.
He's got two coming out next week.
So he won't be out for two weeks.
No, a week from Monday...
He told me he would get it out.
Now, the only question, the thing I have to work out with him is whether we try to use the best figures or whether we...
I would use the best.
I think in between the two... Much better to use something more credible.
I think especially in view of Gallup.
Of course, the play is a...
In a way, it's kind of good because it's...
If they disagree.
Well, not only that, but the public...
They never distinguished the polls.
Another thing, too, is that Harris can say he's taken it over that and the other period as well.
That's precisely right.
It would be a longer period.
It would be over two weeks.
But he really feels the Gallup thing may be a little bit wrong.
He thinks it's off.
He's quick to say that in the first week in November, we showed some slippage.
And he attributes it to the economic uncertainty.
Could be.
He's just unavoidable, but he said, frankly, you're going to bounce back very fast from that, particularly if the good figures are coming out tomorrow and everything.
The revision of the GFB.
Well, I'm not sure anybody's going to play that, but you and I know it's good.
God, isn't that incredible, the change in that?
Well, I told, I really gave Schultz hell on that today.
I said, now look, George, I understand a mistake of 5%, a mistake of 10%.
but a mistake of 35% on the estimate.
Now, God damn it, can't we get some better statisticians, even in commerce?
That's terrible.
Well, you know where it's coming out, of course.
It's coming out of the retail sales.
They keep adjusting the damn things.
And you look back now in August, and it was a sensational month.
Of course it was.
So that affects the third quarter.
That's right.
Well, that's just as well.
But the point is, the first quarter figures, as I told Schultz, always get the play.
I mean, the first figures that are put out, the first announcements.
Now, God damn it, we've just got to get these people in line and line them up and kick them in the ass.
Well, that's a little project, as you know.
I know.
Mainly because we don't want to change the figures.
We just want to be honest.
But I even think in Commerce, Chuck, I know Patrick's all right, but the little boys and his woodwork.
could have deliberately fixed these figures.
Well, it's the Census Bureau, and we finally, we got rid of some guys over there.
We may have to get rid of some more, because there's no question that the pattern is very steady.
Is that a heavily Jewish bureau, too?
I haven't looked.
Like the rest?
Check it out.
Check it out.
There could be a whole incestuous relationship here.
That's my point.
Between the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Census Bureau, and the rest, you know?
Well, of course, TLS uses the census, the basic census data.
It's
There's nothing to do with it.
It's just the fact that they all work together.
And that's why I've sort of been intrigued with the idea of getting one of our Jewish friends to be the head of the whole goddamn thing.
And he knows his people.
He'd want a friend that's with us.
Well, that would be a... Like a Herb Stein.
He'd be perfect.
God, he'd be good at that.
Except I don't know that he... No, he wouldn't go.
We want a guy who could bend a little bit, too.
A little bit of bending.
That's almost as important.
And Greenspan.
Yeah, Alan Greenspan would be great.
But that would be too subject to...
But you're right.
If we have that, God, it would help us.
It's just fantastic.
You know, the 4% growth figure for the third quarter, if that's a bad quarter, we're in great shape.
But the point is, too, that these things do affect people.
Polls affect people, all the rest.
So we've got to...
But it's really interesting that Harris...
independently of Gallup, comes up with a totally different figure.
He shows a gain, right?
Yes, sir.
And then says in the second part that Gallup wasn't pulling in that period, that it's come down, but down still to the same level, not below it, right?
He said it's back down to where it was, just about where it was in September.
Except 51-48 or something like that.
Well, it was 51-48.
He said he thinks this one's 50-48, but he is.
But he questioned me.
He said, don't go on that, because he said I...
all raw data, and he said, I always find some changes.
He said, I don't think the trend is down that much, although you've had a little, you've gone through a little tough period in the first part of November, but it's basically on the economy.
That's going to clear away.
Does he think that the
Does he see the fact that the Vietnam troops announced something that may have helped a bit, or does he agree?
Oh, he thinks that was a tent strike.
I told you he tried.
Maybe I didn't.
He called me from... No, I didn't hear about that.
He called me from the Virgin Islands to tell me that he thought you just pulled it off masterfully.
By the number and the way you did it, leaving the doubts, he thinks you handled that just as a prisoner.
Well, we may have handled it, whether it affects Poles or not, but it can't be negative.
It may be positive.
Well, the most significant thing about it, Mr. President, is nobody's jumped on it.
You know, that's true.
They're afraid.
I bet all kinds of money on Monday that we were going to get a blast by today.
By Teddy and all the rest.
They have all kept their goddamn mouth shut.
I've been watching the wires today.
There hasn't been any criticism at all.
Even in the debate up on the House, nobody has hit your press conference.
That's right.
Which means that...
They're afraid.
Afraid we've got something up our sleeve.
Exactly.
Which we may have.
Well, anyway...
Be sure that now the word gets out.
I want Ziegler, you tell him, he's to work all night if necessary to get out the idea.
Ziegler and Scali.
Scali's here in town, is he?
Oh, yes.
Just to work on this deal.
The Bowling Amendment is the Mansfield Amendment.
It's a great gain for the administration as a result of the President's press conference.
Okay?
We'll push that very hard.
I just heard that Schultz has not yet reached Maney, so we'll be waiting until we get through to him.
Yes, sir.

NARA Description

On November 17, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 7:17 pm to 7:25 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 015-008 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 15-8

Date: November 17, 1971
Time: 7:17 pm - 7:25 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with the White House operator.

     Charles W. Colson
The President talked with Colson.

     Public relations
          -John A. Scali
                 -Edward P. Boland amendment
                      -Michael J. Mansfield amendment
                 -Labor
                 -George H. Mahon and Leslie C. Arends
                      -Call from the President, 11/17
                 -Ronald L. Ziegler
                      -Mansfield amendment

     American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations [AFL-CIO]
        convention
        -George P. Shultz
         -George Meany
         -Schedule
               -The President

     Polls
             -George H. Gallup
             -Louis P.Harris
                  -Schedule of release
                  -Figures
                       -Use by White House
             -Gallup
             -Harris
                  -Estimate of Gallup poll
                  -Views on economy

     Shultz
          -Gross National Product [GNP]
          -Conversation with the President
          -Economic statistics
               -Errors

     Commerce Department
        -Statisticians
        -Retail sales
              -August
        -Harold C. Passer
        -Census Bureau
              -Jews

     Bureau of Labor Statistics [BLS]
          -Herbert G. Stein
          -Alan Greenspan

     Polls
             -Harris compared to Gallup
             -Harris's conversation with Colson
                -Effect of issues
                     -Economy
                     -Vietnam troop announcement
                     -Handling
                            -Edward M. Kennedy
                     -Boland amendment
                            -House debate

     Ziegler
          -Preparation of message
          -Scali
          -Boland Amendment
                -Mansfield Amendment

     Meany
         -Call from Shultz

Also recorded on November 18, 1971

  • 015-006 7:14 PM · 38 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 7:14 pm to 7:16 pm.
  • 015-007 7:16 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:16 pm and 7:17 pm.
  • 015-009 8:05 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 8:05 pm to 8:07 pm.
  • 015-010 8:10 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 8:10 pm.
  • 015-011 8:10 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:10 pm and 8:21 pm.
  • 015-012 8:21 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 8:21 pm to 8:24 pm.
  • 015-013 8:41 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 8:41 pm to 8:46 pm.
  • 015-014 8:46 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:46 pm and 9:00 pm.

All 77 conversations from November 18, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 015-008, November 18, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/015-008 (accessed October 21, 2026).