On November 18, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 6:56 pm to 7:07 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 015-048 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Yeah.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
They had some suggestion that I call long on that bill that's down there.
I didn't fill it because I cannot be in a position to be such a yacker and vindicate it when I might veto something.
Oh, no.
It's just a bad political issue.
The average person thinks, well, I would be doing it for better and better money.
I'm going to make the difference this year.
No, and I strongly recommend it against that call.
I don't know whether that got through to you, but...
Bonneville called me and I said, no, the president should not make that call.
I'm not going to do it.
I didn't call.
Several reasons, actually.
Stennis, we get layered to call Stennis, and he may turn around and get stalled.
When are they going to vote?
They've already voted, sir.
But there will be a motion to strike apparently tomorrow.
The vote is over.
It's 49.
I was close.
It was a pretty straight partisan line.
They're going to make a motion tomorrow to strike that provision, the
the dollar checkoff provision.
That's Wilbur Mills, to no surprise of anybody, to surprise everybody except me, will of course take it.
Of course he will.
He's going to play a purely partisan line here.
He has no choice, Mr. President.
If he wants to be a credible Democratic candidate, he's damn well not going to be the guy that doesn't give them their $8 million, their $8 million or $20 million.
Let me say this.
No, $8 million for their deficit.
Right.
The point is...
Well, I talked with Conley this afternoon about how to frustrate that bill.
He thinks he can do it.
I'm not sure of that.
Well, I think we can.
For one thing, all the tax returns for next year, the forms are printed.
and there's no way you can call them back.
So what you would do is send a special bulletin out saying that if you want to do this, indicate it on your tax return, and then the administrative complications would be horrendous.
And I think the Congress might very well do exactly what it did before, and that is repeal it, because it's just... Did it repeal it?
Yes, sir.
In 64... 63, long got it through, and then early in 64, I think I'm right on the years, the House, in a very unusual action, voted to suspend...
provisions of it so it's on the books indefinitely suspended a very curious episode but we went through this with the christmas tree bill that long had i think 1963 so conley isn't worried about it he said you for one thing is partisans aren't going to check it off because they know them that a certain percentage of their dollar is going to go to somebody they don't want he didn't feel that it would be
Or the other way, we might let the Republicans know that you're not going to contribute to the Democrats.
In other words, both parties might end up discouraging it, which would cause it to fall of its own weight.
And it could work either way.
Well, anyway, we're not going to get that much involved.
I don't think you should.
Let them fight the damage, but I'm not going to get in that position calling us wrong.
Right.
Well, I thought that was a very poor idea.
I did agree with the recommendation that Mitchell get Weir to call when he dies.
If we can turn that around, fine.
Well, the only reason I would call Russell Long is if they thought a call might do it well, but it won't.
Connolly's all set.
I had a good talk with him.
He's very upbeat and satisfied, too.
God, he's great.
I'm glad you called him because... Well, I appreciate that.
I spent an hour with him, and I put it very low-key.
I know.
But I did.
He's all set.
Wait until next week.
It's Connolly.
Oh, he'll be good.
and I told him about the Scali briefing at the cabinet meeting.
He said, what did he do?
Oh, God, he said, my God, he did it.
Well, you know, the cabinet people, Rogers was infuriated.
God damn it, they had it coming.
Well, Rogers was infuriated, but then he called me afterwards, about two days later, and he said, you know, I think Scali was right.
Well, it sunk in on him, and still means well to me.
Yeah, I mean,
It just needs a spine, a stiffened backbone.
It was ironic.
And it is a lousy captain.
Absolutely ironic.
It really is.
Well, it is from the standpoint that they're good managers.
Wonderful men.
Very good, decent, honorable, honest men.
Well, I just got the retail sales for last week, Mr. President.
Good, huh?
Up 4% over the week before, a total of 8.6 billion, 17% ahead of last year.
One of the biggest weeks, I reckon.
So it must be something.
It's just the same point.
Funny thing, though, that you look at the market today, it drops off a little.
But now, they paid no attention to that.
Apparently, our poor fellow passenger didn't get it across.
Couldn't do it.
On the GMT?
Yeah.
The wires played...
beautifully on it.
But you see, it had no effect on the market.
No.
Of course, the market was up at noon and it drifted off during the day.
As we've said, I'd pay no attention for a little while to that.
I agree.
Let's watch these retail sales.
If this keeps going, Conley had exactly the same feeling.
He said, the consumer, the mood across this country is great.
He feels it is, I know.
Oh, he said, look, Chuck,
As soon as people stop bringing their hands among the sophisticates, this thing's going to take off and be out of everybody's control.
He just thinks the way I do, that the bellwether are going to be the consumers.
We put a little more money in their pockets with this tax bill, and we'll just go like gangbusters, and that's all we need.
Schultz and I have sent you a memo, Mr. President, that addresses what happened down there this afternoon and suggests a little language to you.
It just analyzes the resolution that the AFL-CIO adopted.
Schultz had not seen it when he talked to you earlier.
Now that we've seen it, we have a couple of thoughts for you.
Do you think I should address one, sir?
To their resolution?
Yeah.
Well, yes, sir.
Just answering the point that...
What they said in effect was that they would stay on the board so long as they got what they wanted, but that they might have to drop out if they didn't.
And they wouldn't encourage cooperation.
Schultz and I both feel that you should simply make the point that we are succeeding.
We are doing this for all the American people.
We want everybody to participate.
We want the participation of all groups.
But whether they participate or not, we're going to make it succeed.
Otherwise, it looks like...
Meany hit an elevator, laid an elevator down, and we didn't respond to him.
But you'll see in this memo why we think hitting that one point might be very important.
I'll put it another way.
Ignoring the point might be misinterpreted.
Meany didn't say anything new that he hadn't said before, but it's the context of what you said that George and I feel
If you can do it, you know best where it can fit in, but it's a point that maybe should not be ignored.
I've read Meany's full speech, and he's a witty fellow.
He apparently did not, there's not much partisan ire.
I've just been hearing from our guys down there, Cashin's down there, and he said they're not really, there isn't that support from Meany.
There's not the angry feeling at all.
You put on a showman-like performance today and got a lot of laughs, but not a hell of a lot of applause.
The feeling down there is still that you're going to be very well received.
Oh, I don't care about that.
We're good.
I don't quite know how to take this thing off.
Well, I'll take a look.
Take a look, and if it fits, it's...
The argument is true.
The argument is true.
The idea being that we'll go forward regardless whether you drop out or not.
Right.
In effect, what Meany has done today is to lay an ultimatum down.
She has said it's going to go forward, but on our terms only.
And then the next day, the President of the United States comes and has to say it's going to go forward whether business, labor, or any interest group wants to participate.
We're committed.
Well, we're committed to our objective of reducing inflation and creating employment.
And we're going to do it for the benefit of all the American people.
We want everybody to participate, but if they can't, we're going to win our battle against inflation.
And we're going to create debt.
And in effect, that's an answer to it.
But you can see how it flows when you read it.
Have a good trip, Mr. President.