Nixon phone call with Shultz on AFL-CIO and George Meany

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Hello.

I understand you had an interesting golf game at the... Well, I did, and I... Just in terms of personal reactions, I felt much better about the game than I ever felt before.

I was more relaxed.

Yeah.

I was more relaxed.

I was glad to have been here.

I think that was good.

It will.

It's quite obvious that from just looking at the sampling of the wires, that these things, that they are just outraged at labor generally.

You know, they say they just look at these guys and they look like a bunch of goons.

That's too bad, you know, because we know that they have some quality, but this fellow is so overstated a thing.

If I were a labor leader, I wouldn't feel too confident at the moment with you.

They did.

Huh.

Yeah.

Oh boy.

It's an intentional solve.

There was a report, and I called that code, because I was hearing people, I was watching the football game, and I was listening to it, and I was listening to it, and I was listening to it, and I was listening to it, and I was listening to it,

Oh, my.

You can't get away with that because it was on television.

No.

But the whole thing was terrible.

I'm sorry to lie to you.

It was just so...

I have a feeling that...

I'm inclined to think that we don't want to martyrize him.

I think you've got a fellow that's doing this, you're letting him cook himself.

But at the same time, take a firm line.

Now, Connelly will do that, of course.

But whether we ask him to or not, he's going to do it.

He feels so strongly about it.

Yeah.

I would say that certainly the majority of the country wants us to take labor on, not just meaning, but labor generally.

The organized labor, they think, is somewhat the culprit, meaning it symbolizes it.

On the other hand, we get back always to the problems, to

We can't get along with them.

The question is, can we do anything without them?

And there, we have to look at what our options are.

That's why I think we've got to have these contingencies ready to go in case...

Right.

All the way.

I used it.

I struck a meeting a little in a way that he took me back to what I kept.

I never referred to it.

Yes, exactly.

That would, in other words, foul up what we want to have happen here.

That's the thing I'm concerned about.

If we get out there

in a way where they just go out on strike.

That's going to be tough.

The main point is I don't know what weapons we have to use against the strike.

That's the problem.

I think there are two.

I don't know the first thing.

There are two groups.

that are in a strike situation right now.

We've heard it said that one of them is cold and the other is hot.

It's taking a beating on the cold.

I noticed that.

I know.

have the dock and they're hurting the family.

There's been a fair amount of progress going on in the association, but if it does go, it's hard to remember, so I think it's a very expensive decision for them and it's a case of them starting a new boat.

Yeah.

Yep.

Right, I see.

Yeah.

That's kind of what happens when you're on a rollercoaster.

You're not in good time.

Right.

So, I can feel things going by.

I'm not getting too excited about that.

And the other thing is, I'm going to go to the track for an increase.

I think on those that you get those off in a hurry.

We can't appear.

The one thing we must avoid, of course, while trying to get these out, we must not appear that we're caving in to meaning.

That's the problem.

That's a tickly situation because people may relate it even though it is totally unrelated.

And so it's a tough one, isn't it?

Because now the symbolism of taking them on, we have now created that.

We must not let it be destroyed or tarnished too badly.

It's not an easy one to field.

Well, the fact is they are way out of line.

I don't think I'd like to see a Democratic candidate for president going to the convention.

Well, they... Sure.

They're going to have to do it, though.

You know what I mean?

That's their line.

I think it's just good that they're in that position.

But Meany's, Meany is not, that's one of the good things about having some television presence.

He cannot sell the idea, you know, that he is strong and so forth.

People see it.

They see it on television.

They believe that.

They don't believe him at all.

He's in a very bad spot there, I think.

right in front of people who can't get started with it.

They can't get away with it.

So we shall see.

Has he?

Good.

good, but they are making every effort to insulate the destructions they will make from all the stuff that's going on.

So that's the insane miracle that we can have, that we can do, and it's working.

The bow and all of the other things.

I have experience with, you know, a few of the systems that are going to help me.

But they have to be careful, too.

You know, there's one of those instructions that says that you can't make this today.

It's not right.

I don't think any of the labor leaders, George, will take any on.

I mean, it's like it's the club, you know.

They, uh, but, uh, they're...

The president will, and, uh, he, he has, he told me, and I just want to talk to him, and I just want to tell him that...

I heard that about a while ago.

He has an open invitation to you.

He has a section for it that he didn't include, too, and he's got no reason to...

At this point, probably, yeah.

At this point, though, I do not want to appear to be, because people do not separate it out, to be catering to any of the labor leaders.

I insist, well, just keep our distance.

That means having everybody be as strong as we can.

Well, I agree with that.

On the other hand, we've got to be very practical about things like the coal settlement and the dock settlement.

I think those two, because they can hurt the economy, just got to, frankly, got to grin and bear it.

That's the way I feel about those.

What is the final thing that will be on that retroactivity?

How's that going to stand on?

Well, both Senate and House committees have voted against retroactivity.

So that'll take us off the hook there.

Right.

I'd do it.

I'd push it.

I think the way you could do it, friend, or the best of both worlds, is to have them come down and say, I don't agree with it, and I regret this, but that I feel it's, the law generally has to be done, and just sign it.

We're not going to get any credit for being correct or activity.

Let them take the responsibility for it.

We have to have it for other reasons.

But we'll take a look at the time.

On the coal thing?

I know they did.

Well...

out of advantage to people because they were going to try to say how they knew they were going to get additional action.

On the other hand, they also knew that the country wasn't going to stand up to a long cold front.

Sure.

So, yeah.

So, I think they were practicing that.

But the public members were taking a lot of action.

The meeting?

Oh, yes.

During the news, the party, the weather, the phone.

I told Jerry Warren, you know, the president.

I said, what's the stuff about Max and public efforts?

He said, what's the stuff about Max?

Oh, sure.

They're going to look like heroes because they have been the ones who've been tough.

Yeah.

It's going to be quite a game next year.

Well, we are...

They're already as good as they know.

They have a very sharp... Yeah, I understand.

...very, uh... ...very good addition now.

Yeah.

So you can't make it.

It's quite obvious.

Good.

Yeah.

Well, I must say, I'm going to take my hat off.

It's great to be on board with that.

Well, we'll see.

We have a situation here where Meany basically is too old.

That's part of the problem.

He really is out of step.

And as a result, he really gave us an opportunity.

Don't you think so?

When he goes out there, particularly the president knows what he can do with it.

The American people are just offended terribly by that.

That's what the country is now responding to.

They don't like that.

Well, also the gaveling of the delegation.

Yeah.

Sure.

Well, we'll let them stay out, right?

Okay.

Nixon phone call with Shultz on AFL-CIO and George Meany

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on November 22, 1971

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