Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 015-080
Date: Sunday, November 21, 1971 at 7:18 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Shultz, George P.
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/015-080

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello.
[0:04] I understand you had an interesting golf game at the... Well, I did, and I... Just in terms of personal reactions, I felt much better about the game than I ever felt before.
[0:27] I was more relaxed.
[0:27] Yeah.
[0:27] I was more relaxed.
[0:28] I was glad to have been here.
[0:28] I think that was good.
[0:30] It will.
[0:59] It's quite obvious that from just looking at the sampling of the wires, that these things, that they are just outraged at labor generally.
[1:23] You know, they say they just look at these guys and they look like a bunch of goons.
[1:25] That's too bad, you know, because we know that they have some quality, but this fellow is so overstated a thing.
[1:27] If I were a labor leader, I wouldn't feel too confident at the moment with you.
[1:36] They did.
[2:05] Huh.
[2:24] Yeah.
[2:24] Oh boy.
[2:25] It's an intentional solve.
[2:28] There was a report, and I called that code, because I was hearing people, I was watching the football game, and I was listening to it, and I was listening to it, and I was listening to it, and I was listening to it, and I was listening to it,
[3:01] Oh, my.
[3:23] You can't get away with that because it was on television.
[3:24] No.
[3:24] But the whole thing was terrible.
[3:25] I'm sorry to lie to you.
[3:25] It was just so...
[3:30] I have a feeling that...
[3:52] I'm inclined to think that we don't want to martyrize him.
[3:55] I think you've got a fellow that's doing this, you're letting him cook himself.
[3:57] But at the same time, take a firm line.
[4:20] Now, Connelly will do that, of course.
[4:21] But whether we ask him to or not, he's going to do it.
[4:22] He feels so strongly about it.
[4:23] Yeah.
[4:23] Yeah.
[4:23] Yeah.
[4:28] Yeah.
[4:41] I would say that certainly the majority of the country wants us to take labor on, not just meaning, but labor generally.
[4:50] The organized labor, they think, is somewhat the culprit, meaning it symbolizes it.
[4:52] On the other hand, we get back always to the problems, to
[4:55] We can't get along with them.
[5:03] The question is, can we do anything without them?
[5:07] And there, we have to look at what our options are.
[5:08] That's why I think we've got to have these contingencies ready to go in case...
[5:12] Right.
[5:28] All the way.
[5:34] I used it.
[5:37] I struck a meeting a little in a way that he took me back to what I kept.
[5:38] I never referred to it.
[5:39] Yes, exactly.
[6:02] That would, in other words, foul up what we want to have happen here.
[6:05] That's the thing I'm concerned about.
[6:06] If we get out there
[6:08] in a way where they just go out on strike.
[6:14] That's going to be tough.
[6:14] The main point is I don't know what weapons we have to use against the strike.
[6:17] That's the problem.
[6:17] I think there are two.
[6:17] I don't know the first thing.
[6:25] There are two groups.
[6:26] that are in a strike situation right now.
[6:36] We've heard it said that one of them is cold and the other is hot.
[6:37] It's taking a beating on the cold.
[6:39] I noticed that.
[7:00] I know.
[7:01] I know.
[7:01] I know.
[7:02] have the dock and they're hurting the family.
[7:18] There's been a fair amount of progress going on in the association, but if it does go, it's hard to remember, so I think it's a very expensive decision for them and it's a case of them starting a new boat.
[7:25] Yeah.
[7:44] Yeah.
[7:45] Yep.
[8:00] Right, I see.
[8:00] Yeah.
[8:04] That's kind of what happens when you're on a rollercoaster.
[8:18] You're not in good time.
[8:18] Right.
[8:19] Right.
[8:19] So, I can feel things going by.
[8:19] I'm not getting too excited about that.
[8:20] And the other thing is, I'm going to go to the track for an increase.
[8:25] I think on those that you get those off in a hurry.
[8:54] We can't appear.
[9:14] The one thing we must avoid, of course, while trying to get these out, we must not appear that we're caving in to meaning.
[9:17] That's the problem.
[9:17] That's a tickly situation because people may relate it even though it is totally unrelated.
[9:19] And so it's a tough one, isn't it?
[9:20] Because now the symbolism of taking them on, we have now created that.
[9:22] We must not let it be destroyed or tarnished too badly.
[9:39] It's not an easy one to field.
[9:39] Well, the fact is they are way out of line.
[9:42] I don't think I'd like to see a Democratic candidate for president going to the convention.
[10:06] Well, they... Sure.
[10:07] They're going to have to do it, though.
[10:08] You know what I mean?
[10:08] That's their line.
[10:08] I think it's just good that they're in that position.
[10:10] But Meany's, Meany is not, that's one of the good things about having some television presence.
[10:31] He cannot sell the idea, you know, that he is strong and so forth.
[10:33] People see it.
[10:33] They see it on television.
[10:33] They believe that.
[10:34] They don't believe him at all.
[10:34] He's in a very bad spot there, I think.
[10:38] right in front of people who can't get started with it.
[10:50] They can't get away with it.
[10:51] So we shall see.
[10:51] Has he?
[10:51] Good.
[10:52] good, but they are making every effort to insulate the destructions they will make from all the stuff that's going on.
[11:09] So that's the insane miracle that we can have, that we can do, and it's working.
[11:15] The bow and all of the other things.
[11:29] I have experience with, you know, a few of the systems that are going to help me.
[11:30] But they have to be careful, too.
[11:31] You know, there's one of those instructions that says that you can't make this today.
[11:33] It's not right.
[11:42] I don't think any of the labor leaders, George, will take any on.
[12:03] I mean, it's like it's the club, you know.
[12:04] They, uh, but, uh, they're...
[12:04] The president will, and, uh, he, he has, he told me, and I just want to talk to him, and I just want to tell him that...
[12:09] I heard that about a while ago.
[12:09] He has an open invitation to you.
[12:10] He has a section for it that he didn't include, too, and he's got no reason to...
[12:21] At this point, probably, yeah.
[12:46] At this point, though, I do not want to appear to be, because people do not separate it out, to be catering to any of the labor leaders.
[12:49] I insist, well, just keep our distance.
[12:49] That means having everybody be as strong as we can.
[12:54] Well, I agree with that.
[13:03] On the other hand, we've got to be very practical about things like the coal settlement and the dock settlement.
[13:05] I think those two, because they can hurt the economy, just got to, frankly, got to grin and bear it.
[13:07] That's the way I feel about those.
[13:10] What is the final thing that will be on that retroactivity?
[13:35] How's that going to stand on?
[13:35] Well, both Senate and House committees have voted against retroactivity.
[13:37] So that'll take us off the hook there.
[13:38] Right.
[13:38] I'd do it.
[13:38] I'd push it.
[13:40] I think the way you could do it, friend, or the best of both worlds, is to have them come down and say, I don't agree with it, and I regret this, but that I feel it's, the law generally has to be done, and just sign it.
[14:09] We're not going to get any credit for being correct or activity.
[14:10] Let them take the responsibility for it.
[14:30] We have to have it for other reasons.
[14:31] But we'll take a look at the time.
[14:31] On the coal thing?
[14:32] I know they did.
[14:32] Well...
[14:33] out of advantage to people because they were going to try to say how they knew they were going to get additional action.
[14:57] On the other hand, they also knew that the country wasn't going to stand up to a long cold front.
[14:59] Sure.
[14:59] Sure.
[14:59] So, yeah.
[14:59] So, I think they were practicing that.
[15:00] But the public members were taking a lot of action.
[15:02] The meeting?
[15:03] Oh, yes.
[15:19] During the news, the party, the weather, the phone.
[15:20] I told Jerry Warren, you know, the president.
[15:21] I said, what's the stuff about Max and public efforts?
[15:22] He said, what's the stuff about Max?
[15:23] Oh, sure.
[15:46] They're going to look like heroes because they have been the ones who've been tough.
[15:48] Yeah.
[15:48] Yeah.
[15:48] Yeah.
[15:48] Yeah.
[15:49] It's going to be quite a game next year.
[15:49] Well, we are...
[15:50] They're already as good as they know.
[15:50] They have a very sharp... Yeah, I understand.
[15:51] ...very, uh... ...very good addition now.
[15:52] Yeah.
[15:52] So you can't make it.
[15:53] It's quite obvious.
[16:18] Good.
[16:18] Yeah.
[16:18] Yeah.
[16:18] Yeah.
[16:18] Yeah.
[16:18] Well, I must say, I'm going to take my hat off.
[16:19] It's great to be on board with that.
[16:20] Well, we'll see.
[16:21] We have a situation here where Meany basically is too old.
[16:42] That's part of the problem.
[16:43] He really is out of step.
[16:44] And as a result, he really gave us an opportunity.
[16:45] Don't you think so?
[16:45] When he goes out there, particularly the president knows what he can do with it.
[16:47] The American people are just offended terribly by that.
[16:48] That's what the country is now responding to.
[16:49] They don't like that.
[16:50] Well, also the gaveling of the delegation.
[17:03] Yeah.
[17:03] Yeah.
[17:03] Yeah.
[17:03] Sure.
[17:03] Sure.
[17:04] Sure.
[17:04] Well, we'll let them stay out, right?
[17:05] Okay.