Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 15 › Conversation 015-098
Nixon phone call with Lewis on AFL-CIO and George Meany
Monday, November 22, 1971 · 4:02 PM–4:07 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min
AI Summary
President Nixon spoke with Reader’s Digest editor Hobart D. Lewis to discuss the President’s recent appearance at the AFL-CIO convention and the ongoing tensions with union leadership, specifically George Meany. The pair also discussed a request for an exclusive interview regarding the administration's foreign policy and Nixon's upcoming trip to the People's Republic of China. Additionally, Lewis briefed the President on a legislative matter involving John Ehrlichman and George Shultz, pledging the magazine's editorial support for the White House's position.
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Yeah.
Mr. President, I have Mr. Hobart Lewis returning your call.
All right.
Hello.
Mr. President.
Well, how are you?
I'm just fine.
That was a great performance down in Miami.
I wish you could have been there.
It's been quite a day.
I congratulate you on going down there and doing what you did.
It's a very close question now, of course, as to whether these people will stay on the board.
I know.
If they don't, then we're going to have to go without them.
The whole country will be against them.
The problem there is, of course, is that
They may go on some strikes, and that'll be tough, but we just can't back down now.
Well, we cannot, and I think the country's with you.
Oh, I'm sure they are, yeah.
Well, I mean, the rank and file of labor's with you.
Yep, we've even, yeah.
And they've gone too far, and at least it...
I think you've got them in a box.
I don't think they dare walk off.
That's my assumption.
You know and I don't, but I think they'd be dead wrong to get off that payboard.
Right, right.
Well, they oughtn't to, but their media is so obstreperous and old now that... A little senile, I think, Mr. President.
Yeah, senile and...
I thought Fitzsimmons was great.
Oh, sure.
He's been great.
He's been great throughout.
Sure.
Great.
Right.
Okay.
Well, anyway, we can just keep our feet to the firehose.
Thank you very much for that testimony you wrote for the Reader's Digest, too.
Ah, well, it's nothing I enjoy doing more.
So, Mr. President, I wrote you a letter the other day, and I talked to John Ehrlichman.
Could you see your way clear to giving us an exclusive interview?
on foreign policy.
I talked to Ehrlichman.
That would also be for our 50th anniversary issue.
We'd like to see if we could do it.
When would it be?
We ought to lay it on before the 2nd or 3rd of December.
It would take about three-quarters of an hour.
And we could cut... Well, the interview is perhaps... Do you think that's the best format?
Or maybe something I wrote for it?
Or 150th anniversary?
No, no, sir.
We would like to ask you some questions about how you're going to achieve a generation of peace.
Oh, I see.
And about what you think you can get out of going to China.
If you could spare the time or not.
Yeah.
I mean, I didn't mean that except that it's a question of being able perhaps to do it better if I have a chance to think about the things rather than just off the top of my head.
Well, listen, it's in your head all, you know, it's all there.
When do you have to have it by the... Well, I think we would need it by the 4th or 5th of December.
Mm-hmm.
And that's for your January issue?
For the February issue, which comes out at the end of January.
Oh, I see.
As I put in a plug in my letter to you and mentioned to Ehrlichman, you know, this would go all over the world and would be a pretty darn good foreign policy platform.
And I could send down some questions in advance.
It would be a little less spontaneous if we were to do it.
But we have about four or five key questions.
Oh, that doesn't bother me, no.
No.
Well, let me check to see, Hope, if we can get it between now and the 3rd.
And the 3rd or 4th of December, yes, sir.
3rd or 4th, right, right, right.
Okay, okay.
I don't like to do that, but I think it might be useful.
I understand, I understand.
All right.
Good.
I wrote your note just the other day.
I got my Camp David jacket.
I wear it on the morning walks.
Did you get, right, and you don't play any golf anymore?
I really don't.
Too cold.
Too cold, yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
I'm going down to Hope Sound for Thanksgiving.
How did you get along with...
the Ehrlichman thing.
As you know, we're backing you all the way on that.
But I think what you ought to do is to just get the damn, we'll back the congressional thing.
That's my view.
And as soon as it gets to my desk, I'll back it.
John was very receptive, and he said he would talk to George Schultz, and I think we put up a pretty good case there in a memorandum, which I don't think you'll have time to read, but John has read it.
I don't need the memorandum.
I know what it's all about.
I know you do, and I'm sure you've got it in your mind.
Right.
Well, the point is that if you fellows have studied it through and feel you can do that, we want to help you.
All right.
Well, that's very kind of you, and I think it's going to work out.
Good.
Thank you for your efforts, and keep up the good fight.
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
NARA Description
On November 22, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Hobart D. Lewis talked on the telephone from 4:02 pm to 4:07 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 015-098 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 15-98
Date: November 22, 1971
Time: 4:02 pm - 4:07 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with the White House operator.
Hobart D. (“Hobe”) Lewis
The President talked with Lewis.
[See also Conversation No. 622-2]
The President's speech to American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial
Organizations [AFL-CIO] convention
-White House relations with labor
-Possible strikes
-Rank and file labor
-George Meany
-Pay Board
-Age
-Frank E. Fitzsimmons
The President's testimonial for Reader's Digest
Request for exclusive interview
-John D. Ehrlichman
-Foreign policy
-"Generation of peace" theme
-The President's forthcoming trip to People's Republic of China [PRC]
-Questions
-Schedule
Lewis
-Presidential gift
-Camp David jacket
-Golf
-Ehrlichman
-Congressional matter
-George P. Shultz
-MemorandumAlso recorded on November 22, 1971
- 622-001 3:51 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:51 pm to 3:58 pm.
- 622-002 4:02 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Hobart D. Lewis met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:02 pm to 4:07 pm.
- 015-099 4:07 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
- 622-003 4:07 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
- 622-004 4:07 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
- 622-005 4:07 PM · 4 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
- 622-006 4:07 PM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:07 pm and 4:15 pm.
- 015-100 4:15 PM · 10 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Clark MacGregor talked on the telephone from 4:15 pm to 4:26 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 015-098, November 22, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/015-098 (accessed October 1, 2026).