{"conversationCode":"015-098","tapeNumber":15,"conversationNumber":98,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-015-098","startDateTime":"1971-11-22T21:02:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-11-22T21:07:00.000Z","startDate":"22-Nov-1971","startTime":"4:02 PM","endDate":"22-Nov-1971","endTime":"4:07 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; Lewis, Hobart D.;","description":"On November 22, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Hobart D. Lewis talked on the telephone from 4:02 pm to 4:07 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 015-098 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 15-98\n\nDate: November 22, 1971\nTime: 4:02 pm - 4:07 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with the White House operator.\n\n     Hobart D. (“Hobe”) Lewis\n\nThe President talked with Lewis.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 622-2]\n\n     The President's speech to American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial\n           Organizations [AFL-CIO] convention\n          -White House relations with labor\n               -Possible strikes\n          -Rank and file labor\n          -George Meany\n               -Pay Board\n               -Age\n          -Frank E. Fitzsimmons\n\n     The President's testimonial for Reader's Digest\n\n     Request for exclusive interview\n         -John D. Ehrlichman\n         -Foreign policy\n         -\"Generation of peace\" theme\n                -The President's forthcoming trip to People's Republic of China [PRC]\n         -Questions\n         -Schedule\n\n     Lewis\n\f          -Presidential gift\n                -Camp David jacket\n          -Golf\n          -Ehrlichman\n                -Congressional matter\n                -George P. Shultz\n                -Memorandum","filename":["015-098.mp3"],"tapeStart":"03:04:56","tapeEnd":"03:09:38","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","White House operator","Lewis, Hobart D."],"prevCode":"015-097","nextCode":"015-099","transcript":[{"start":0.62,"end":1.87,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":1.89,"end":5.14,"text":"Mr. President, I have Mr. Hobart Lewis returning your call."},{"start":5.16,"end":6.99,"text":"All right."},{"start":7.42,"end":7.9,"text":"Hello."},{"start":8.22,"end":8.7,"text":"Mr. President."},{"start":8.8,"end":9.51,"text":"Well, how are you?"},{"start":9.63,"end":10.33,"text":"I'm just fine."},{"start":10.35,"end":12.19,"text":"That was a great performance down in Miami."},{"start":12.35,"end":13.81,"text":"I wish you could have been there."},{"start":13.87,"end":15.01,"text":"It's been quite a day."},{"start":16.02,"end":19.9,"text":"I congratulate you on going down there and doing what you did."},{"start":20.64,"end":25.11,"text":"It's a very close question now, of course, as to whether these people will stay on the board."},{"start":25.19,"end":25.49,"text":"I know."},{"start":25.81,"end":28.42,"text":"If they don't, then we're going to have to go without them."},{"start":28.58,"end":30.94,"text":"The whole country will be against them."},{"start":30.96,"end":33.24,"text":"The problem there is, of course, is that"},{"start":33.22,"end":38.81,"text":"They may go on some strikes, and that'll be tough, but we just can't back down now."},{"start":39.11,"end":41.3,"text":"Well, we cannot, and I think the country's with you."},{"start":41.9,"end":43.4,"text":"Oh, I'm sure they are, yeah."},{"start":43.42,"end":45.38,"text":"Well, I mean, the rank and file of labor's with you."},{"start":45.54,"end":48.69,"text":"Yep, we've even, yeah."},{"start":48.77,"end":53.18,"text":"And they've gone too far, and at least it..."},{"start":53.88,"end":55.14,"text":"I think you've got them in a box."},{"start":55.16,"end":56.42,"text":"I don't think they dare walk off."},{"start":56.44,"end":58.08,"text":"That's my assumption."},{"start":58.91,"end":64.02,"text":"You know and I don't, but I think they'd be dead wrong to get off that payboard."},{"start":64.04,"end":64.98,"text":"Right, right."},{"start":65,"end":74.59,"text":"Well, they oughtn't to, but their media is so obstreperous and old now that... A little senile, I think, Mr. President."},{"start":74.77,"end":75.42,"text":"Yeah, senile and..."},{"start":75.39,"end":77.72,"text":"I thought Fitzsimmons was great."},{"start":78.14,"end":78.62,"text":"Oh, sure."},{"start":78.7,"end":79.3,"text":"He's been great."},{"start":79.36,"end":80.4,"text":"He's been great throughout."},{"start":80.88,"end":81.32,"text":"Sure."},{"start":81.34,"end":82.48,"text":"Great."},{"start":82.5,"end":82.7,"text":"Right."},{"start":83.34,"end":83.47,"text":"Okay."},{"start":83.49,"end":87.23,"text":"Well, anyway, we can just keep our feet to the firehose."},{"start":87.65,"end":91.28,"text":"Thank you very much for that testimony you wrote for the Reader's Digest, too."},{"start":91.92,"end":94.1,"text":"Ah, well, it's nothing I enjoy doing more."},{"start":94.72,"end":98.73,"text":"So, Mr. President, I wrote you a letter the other day, and I talked to John Ehrlichman."},{"start":98.75,"end":103.51,"text":"Could you see your way clear to giving us an exclusive interview?"},{"start":104.13,"end":105.28,"text":"on foreign policy."},{"start":106.12,"end":108.62,"text":"I talked to Ehrlichman."},{"start":108.66,"end":111.13,"text":"That would also be for our 50th anniversary issue."},{"start":111.15,"end":113.21,"text":"We'd like to see if we could do it."},{"start":113.29,"end":114.76,"text":"When would it be?"},{"start":114.78,"end":121.01,"text":"We ought to lay it on before the 2nd or 3rd of December."},{"start":121.03,"end":123.36,"text":"It would take about three-quarters of an hour."},{"start":124.37,"end":133.12,"text":"And we could cut... Well, the interview is perhaps... Do you think that's the best format?"},{"start":133.32,"end":136.08,"text":"Or maybe something I wrote for it?"},{"start":136.16,"end":138.4,"text":"Or 150th anniversary?"},{"start":138.42,"end":139.16,"text":"No, no, sir."},{"start":139.18,"end":143.15,"text":"We would like to ask you some questions about how you're going to achieve a generation of peace."},{"start":143.17,"end":143.71,"text":"Oh, I see."},{"start":143.89,"end":148.83,"text":"And about what you think you can get out of going to China."},{"start":149.71,"end":151.84,"text":"If you could spare the time or not."},{"start":151.86,"end":152.2,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":152.75,"end":163.17,"text":"I mean, I didn't mean that except that it's a question of being able perhaps to do it better if I have a chance to think about the things rather than just off the top of my head."},{"start":163.75,"end":168.49,"text":"Well, listen, it's in your head all, you know, it's all there."},{"start":168.75,"end":173.82,"text":"When do you have to have it by the... Well, I think we would need it by the 4th or 5th of December."},{"start":173.84,"end":173.98,"text":"Mm-hmm."},{"start":174.53,"end":177.02,"text":"And that's for your January issue?"},{"start":177.04,"end":179.34,"text":"For the February issue, which comes out at the end of January."},{"start":179.54,"end":179.97,"text":"Oh, I see."},{"start":180.1,"end":188.42,"text":"As I put in a plug in my letter to you and mentioned to Ehrlichman, you know, this would go all over the world and would be a pretty darn good foreign policy platform."},{"start":190.22,"end":193.05,"text":"And I could send down some questions in advance."},{"start":193.15,"end":195.43,"text":"It would be a little less spontaneous if we were to do it."},{"start":195.45,"end":197.76,"text":"But we have about four or five key questions."},{"start":198.4,"end":199.88,"text":"Oh, that doesn't bother me, no."},{"start":199.94,"end":200.2,"text":"No."},{"start":200.98,"end":204.73,"text":"Well, let me check to see, Hope, if we can get it between now and the 3rd."},{"start":204.87,"end":206.73,"text":"And the 3rd or 4th of December, yes, sir."},{"start":206.75,"end":209.24,"text":"3rd or 4th, right, right, right."},{"start":209.26,"end":210.62,"text":"Okay, okay."},{"start":210.64,"end":214.09,"text":"I don't like to do that, but I think it might be useful."},{"start":214.11,"end":215.51,"text":"I understand, I understand."},{"start":215.71,"end":217.31,"text":"All right."},{"start":217.55,"end":218.78,"text":"Good."},{"start":219.22,"end":220.74,"text":"I wrote your note just the other day."},{"start":220.76,"end":222.08,"text":"I got my Camp David jacket."},{"start":222.12,"end":223.8,"text":"I wear it on the morning walks."},{"start":223.86,"end":229.81,"text":"Did you get, right, and you don't play any golf anymore?"},{"start":229.91,"end":230.79,"text":"I really don't."},{"start":230.81,"end":231.25,"text":"Too cold."},{"start":231.78,"end":232.68,"text":"Too cold, yeah."},{"start":232.76,"end":233.14,"text":"That's right."},{"start":233.16,"end":234.06,"text":"That's right."},{"start":234.92,"end":237.49,"text":"I'm going down to Hope Sound for Thanksgiving."},{"start":237.59,"end":239.93,"text":"How did you get along with..."},{"start":240.41,"end":241.6,"text":"the Ehrlichman thing."},{"start":241.62,"end":244.2,"text":"As you know, we're backing you all the way on that."},{"start":245.32,"end":250.77,"text":"But I think what you ought to do is to just get the damn, we'll back the congressional thing."},{"start":251.44,"end":252.24,"text":"That's my view."},{"start":252.26,"end":255.52,"text":"And as soon as it gets to my desk, I'll back it."},{"start":255.5,"end":265.54,"text":"John was very receptive, and he said he would talk to George Schultz, and I think we put up a pretty good case there in a memorandum, which I don't think you'll have time to read, but John has read it."},{"start":265.68,"end":266.82,"text":"I don't need the memorandum."},{"start":266.88,"end":268.11,"text":"I know what it's all about."},{"start":268.13,"end":270.11,"text":"I know you do, and I'm sure you've got it in your mind."},{"start":270.13,"end":270.33,"text":"Right."},{"start":270.77,"end":274.52,"text":"Well, the point is that if you fellows have studied it through and feel you can do that, we want to help you."},{"start":274.66,"end":274.94,"text":"All right."},{"start":274.96,"end":277.1,"text":"Well, that's very kind of you, and I think it's going to work out."},{"start":277.32,"end":277.56,"text":"Good."},{"start":277.82,"end":279.91,"text":"Thank you for your efforts, and keep up the good fight."},{"start":280.05,"end":280.43,"text":"Okay."},{"start":280.47,"end":280.87,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":280.89,"end":281.81,"text":"Thank you so much."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon spoke with Reader’s Digest editor Hobart D. Lewis to discuss the President’s recent appearance at the AFL-CIO convention and the ongoing tensions with union leadership, specifically George Meany. The pair also discussed a request for an exclusive interview regarding the administration's foreign policy and Nixon's upcoming trip to the People's Republic of China. Additionally, Lewis briefed the President on a legislative matter involving John Ehrlichman and George Shultz, pledging the magazine's editorial support for the White House's position.","topics":["AFL-CIO","George Meany","Pay Board","Foreign policy","Reader's Digest","China","Labor relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T00:20:02.985Z"},"topicSlugs":["afl-cio","george-meany","pay-board","foreign-policy","readers-digest","china","labor-relations"],"audioDurationSec":282,"audioFiles":[{"file":"015-098.mp3","bytes":6764041,"durationSec":281.77,"bitrate":192043,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:24.618Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/015-098.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/015-098","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/15/conversation-015-098","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}