{"conversationCode":"015-107","tapeNumber":15,"conversationNumber":107,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-015-107","startDateTime":"1971-11-22T23:13:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-11-22T23:15:00.000Z","startDate":"22-Nov-1971","startTime":"6:13 PM","endDate":"22-Nov-1971","endTime":"6:15 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); White House operator; MacGregor, Clark;","description":"On November 22, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Clark MacGregor talked on the telephone from 6:13 pm to 6:15 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 015-107 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 15-107\n\nDate: November 22, 1971\nTime: 6:13 pm - 6:15 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with the White House operator.\n\n     Clark MacGregor\n\nMacGregor talked with the President.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 622-15C]\n\n     Tax Bill vote\n          -Title 10 of John O. Pastore's amendment\n          -Charles McC. Mathias\n\f          -Clifford P. Case\n          -Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.\n          -Harry F. Byrd, Jr.\n          -John C. Stennis\n          -John L. McClellan\n          -James O. Eastland\n          -Veto\n                -Robert P. Griffin\n                      -Automobile industry consideration\n                      -Meeting with the President\n                -Gerald L. Warren\n                      -Statement to press\n                            -Raymond K. Price, Jr.\n          -House conferees\n                -Check-off provision\n                      -White House opposition\n\n     Breakfast meeting\n          -William E. Timmons","filename":["015-107.mp3"],"tapeStart":"03:27:46","tapeEnd":"03:29:56","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","White House operator","MacGregor, Clark"],"prevCode":"015-106","nextCode":"015-108","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":1.96,"text":"Mr. Clark McGregor."},{"start":2,"end":2.35,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":3.3,"end":4.52,"text":"There you are, sir."},{"start":4.58,"end":6.34,"text":"Mr. President, I'm sorry to bring you the bad news."},{"start":6.42,"end":7.72,"text":"I figured it was that."},{"start":7.75,"end":9.15,"text":"We lost at 52 to 47."},{"start":9.65,"end":12.65,"text":"We lost on the critical vote on Title 10 of Pastore."},{"start":12.7,"end":15.02,"text":"We lost Matthias and Case."},{"start":15.22,"end":19.81,"text":"Five Democrats voted with us, Irvin Bird, Stennis McClellan, and Eastland."},{"start":21.11,"end":25.88,"text":"Without the two Republican defections, we'd have been beaten 50 to 49, just as I anticipated."},{"start":26.16,"end":28.06,"text":"So it didn't make any difference, but it made 52 to 49."},{"start":28.12,"end":30.31,"text":"Well, we'll have a little fun vetoing it."},{"start":30.29,"end":32.55,"text":"You're going to be there at breakfast in the morning, right?"},{"start":33.09,"end":33.81,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":33.84,"end":35,"text":"What about Griffin?"},{"start":35.26,"end":36.56,"text":"Will he stand up for a veto?"},{"start":36.62,"end":36.84,"text":"Yes."},{"start":37.28,"end":37.7,"text":"Will he?"},{"start":37.92,"end":38.55,"text":"I think he will."},{"start":39.93,"end":42.65,"text":"He was very strong in his auto thing."},{"start":44.02,"end":47.72,"text":"I'd talk to him frankly about that tomorrow, Mr. President."},{"start":48.18,"end":49.27,"text":"He'd be flattered if you did."},{"start":49.39,"end":50.29,"text":"Oh, I'm going to ask him."},{"start":50.27,"end":52.33,"text":"I'm going to ask them what they think we ought to do."},{"start":52.61,"end":52.71,"text":"Good."},{"start":52.73,"end":56.94,"text":"I got a piece of paper in to you, but I don't need to give you any guidance on what to bring up tomorrow."},{"start":56.98,"end":57.62,"text":"No, no, no."},{"start":57.64,"end":60,"text":"I'll have the piece of paper, too, but we'll go at 8 o'clock."},{"start":60.12,"end":64.55,"text":"I wanted also to be sure that I wasn't exceeding any authority that I should have."},{"start":64.69,"end":68.6,"text":"Jerry Warren's been concerned about what he should say to the press, and what I did was to take..."},{"start":68.58,"end":85.44,"text":"The Ray Price drafted statement that we did not use Saturday, and I reworked it, cut it way down, and I said, I don't think you ought to issue it, but you ought to use it as a guide in saying that the president feels that this amendment is both unsound and unwise, and that he urges the House of Representatives to reject it."},{"start":86.04,"end":88.51,"text":"and then point out why it was unsound and unwise."},{"start":88.57,"end":90.65,"text":"Well, the House won't get a chance to reject it, will they?"},{"start":91.05,"end":102.53,"text":"Mr. President, the conferees, of course, from the House will be acting, and under the new House rules, any House member can demand a separate vote on this tax checkoff idea, and the House, therefore, will have a vote."},{"start":102.51,"end":104.5,"text":"Assuming that the conferees keep it in."},{"start":104.88,"end":108.84,"text":"How in the hell are you going to get, you mean you might, are you going to try to work the House?"},{"start":108.86,"end":110.02,"text":"We're going to try, Mr. President."},{"start":110.04,"end":110.76,"text":"We're going to try everything."},{"start":110.78,"end":120.52,"text":"But I think it's important for you to say that you urge the House to reject it so that every step along the way you're fighting it and pointing out the dangers."},{"start":120.96,"end":126.48,"text":"Mr. President, if I might be so bold, I think it would be very helpful if we could have Bill Timmons at breakfast, too."},{"start":127.31,"end":127.67,"text":"Fine."},{"start":127.69,"end":128.15,"text":"Bring him along."},{"start":128.27,"end":128.47,"text":"Good."},{"start":128.53,"end":128.99,"text":"Thank you, sir."},{"start":129.43,"end":130.09,"text":"Sorry we lost you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Clark MacGregor discuss the administration's 52-47 defeat on a critical Senate vote regarding Title 10 of the Pastore amendment to a tax bill. Faced with this legislative setback, Nixon confirms his intention to veto the measure and coordinates a strategy session for the following morning. MacGregor advises on press messaging regarding the tax check-off provision and receives approval to bring Bill Timmons to the upcoming breakfast meeting to discuss further efforts to influence the House of Representatives.","topics":["Tax legislation","Presidential veto","Legislative strategy","Senate voting","Clark MacGregor"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T00:20:53.172Z"},"topicSlugs":["tax-legislation","presidential-veto","legislative-strategy","senate-voting","clark-macgregor"],"audioDurationSec":130,"audioFiles":[{"file":"015-107.mp3","bytes":3124035,"durationSec":130.11,"bitrate":192091,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:24.618Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/015-107.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/015-107","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/15/conversation-015-107","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}