Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 16 › Conversation 016-058

Nixon phone call with Colson on OEO child care bill and 1972 election

Wednesday, December 8, 1971 · 3:46 PM–3:55 PM ET · White House Telephone · 11 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation016-058 on Tape 16 (tape position 01:59:39–02:08:37)StartWednesday, December 8, 1971 at 3:46 PMEndWednesday, December 8, 1971 at 3:55 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 016-058 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417191365 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss strategies to consolidate support among conservatives, specifically focusing on the political advantages of vetoing the OEO child care bill. The conversation addresses potential 1972 presidential primary challenges from the right, the administration's favorable position regarding the India-Pakistan War, and the impact of the recent UN vote. They also briefly discuss media strategy, including the promotion of Edith Efron's book and efforts to manage press coverage of the conflict.

Audio

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NARA Description

On December 8, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 3:46 pm to 3:55 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 016-058 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 16-58

Date: December 8, 1971
Time: 3:46 pm - 3:55 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 307-25]

     Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO]
          -Child care bill
          -Veto
                -James L. and William F. Buckley, Jr.
                -Left and right
                -Patrick J. Buchanan
                      -Importance of wording
                            -Conservatives
                                 -Philosophy over program
                -James Buckley

*****************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 06/11/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[016-058-w001]
[Duration: 5m 33s]

       Support for the President
             -Barry M. Goldwater, Sr.
             -Samuel L. Devine
             -Louis C. Wyman
                      -Opposition to John N. Ashbrook

1972 election
       -John N. Ashbrook
              -Possible run for presidency
                      -Backing
                              -Manhattan Twelve
                              -Texas money
                              -American Conservative Union [ACU] support
              -Energy level
                      -Opinion of Charles W. Colson
       -Barry M. Goldwater, Sr.
Show the rest of the log (64 more lines)
              -1964 campaign
       -John N. Ashbrook
              -Possible run for presidency
              -Media coverage
       -Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey Jr.
              -Run for presidency
              -Dove
       -Charles W. Colson’s strategy
       -John Birch Society members
              -John N. Ashbrook
              -John G. Schmitz
              -John Rousselot
       -John N. Ashbrook
              -Pressure from Ohio delegation
       -Charles W. Colson’s work with Patrick J. Buchanan
              -Outreach to conservatives
       -New Hampshire
              -Only place conservative challengers of President want to run
                      -William Loeb
              -Filing deadline
       -Child care veto
              -Signal to Republican faithful
       -Republican National Committee [RNC] meeting
              -Business session
              -Spiro T. Agnew
              -The President's schedule
                      -Trip to the Azores on December 12, 1971
              -Programming
              -Harry S. Dent
       -William H. Rehnquist
              -James L. Buckley

                             -Conservative support

*****************************************************************

    India-Pakistan War
          -India
                -US policy
                      -Conservatives
          -UN General Assembly vote
                -George H.W. Bush
                      -Call from the President
                -Count
                -India
                -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
                -Edward M. Kennedy
                -Kennedy
                      -Remarks
                            -Interventionism
                -Edmund S. Muskie
                -Henry A. Kissinger backgrounder
                -John A. Scali
                      -Marvin L. Kalb
                -Media
                      -Stance

    Edith Efron
         -"Today show"
         -Book

    Mailing
         -Irving Kristol
               -Fortune

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Yeah.
Yes, sir.
One thing that I'm sure you're on top of is the fact that we're preparing now a veto message on that OEO child care thing.
Now, obviously, this is something the Buckleys and both Jim and Bill ought to jump up and down and
and we've been working on that right guys uh you know we're going to take a little heat from the left so we might as well get a little credit from the right well we discussed that last night with him mr president and of course i asked pat buchanan to get in because the yeah the words we use are very very important and uh yeah we we want to be sure that we're
against certain principles that that you know that the conservatives are more interested in philosophy than i know they're the philosophy rather than more than they can in the programs well that's right and they're very uh unrealistic this way they got their tough cookies to i know to deal with jim is jim is frustrated i just oh of course he is sure i know i know he's not he's not really comfortable with these people i mean he knows that they're so unreasonable

— 1 min 27 s with no transcribed speech —

A little heat from the left, so we might as well get a little credit from the right.
Well, we discussed that last night with him, Mr. President, and of course I asked Pat Buchanan to get in because the words we use are very, very important, and we want to be sure that we're against certain principles, that the conservatives are more interested in philosophy.
I know.
they're the philosophy rather than uh more than they can in the programs well that's right and they're very uh unrealistic this way they got their tough cookies to i know to deal with jim is jim is frustrated i just oh of course he is sure i know i know he's not he's not really comfortable with these people i mean he knows that they're so unreasonable

— 5 min 33 s with no transcribed speech —

I would think that most of the conservatives would favor our position on the India, too, don't they?
They don't care for India, do they?
No.
No, they don't.
I was glad that U.N. vote was so decisive.
I called Bush and thanked him.
He did a hell of a good job.
I think we've... Did you know that they only got 12 against us in the old damn U.N., and that's with India and Russia against us.
So that shows we were on the right side of that, I think.
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I think our position from a public standpoint right now, Mr. President, is very good.
I think Kennedy...
with his blast yesterday in Muskie, got a little press out of it, but I don't think they're on a popular side of that issue because really what he's suggesting is an interventionist policy, Kennedy, and I think that's exactly what people don't want.
He was saying we should have been in earlier and should have gotten more involved.
I think he's on the wrong side of that issue politically.
Kissinger did a good job with that background, I guess.
Yes, everybody said he did.
It was well that you spoke to him, because I found Scali wasn't getting enough stuff to do the job.
Yeah, well, he doesn't, and he isn't familiar enough with it, you know.
That's right.
But not his fault.
He does a damn good job.
But Kissinger, now Scali can take that and run with it.
Well, I just listened to him in there arguing like hell with Marvin Kalbhofer.
Okay, I won't do any good.
Well, he's trying.
doesn't know okay Marvin you see Cobb is very very close to discipline from the Russian side you know he is one of his sources so he's going to take the Russian line he's always has and that's he's he's been he's been tough on us in this one but but I think the UN vote as you point out is extremely helpful in right being able to fight off some of the pro-India media which is which is the majority of them yeah
Edith Ephron, our friend, was on the Today Show this morning.
Oh, good.
I haven't seen it rerun.
I want it rerun.
I don't know how well she did, but at least we're getting her national exposure now, and her book is selling well.
Good.
The book's going well, huh?
Yes, sir, and we've just done another mailing.
I'll show it to you when you have time.
It's a beautiful reprint of the crystal piece from Fortune.
Good.
That keeps them on the defensive.
Okay, thanks, Chuck.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Thank you.

Also recorded on December 8, 1971

  • 016-055 3:40 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Arthur S. Flemming talked on the telephone from 3:40 pm to 3:42 pm.
  • 016-056 3:43 PM · 40 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell talked on the telephone from 3:43 pm to 3:44 pm.
  • 307-021 3:43 PM · 38 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and John N. Mitchell met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:43 pm to 3:44 pm.
  • 016-057 3:44 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:44 pm and 3:46 pm.
  • 307-022 3:44 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:44 pm and 3:46 pm.
  • 307-023 3:44 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:44 pm and 3:46 pm.
  • 307-024 3:44 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:44 pm to 3:46 pm.
  • 307-025 3:46 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:46 pm to 3:55 pm.

All 72 conversations from December 8, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 016-058, December 8, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417191365). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/016-058 (accessed November 15, 2026).