Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 016-131
Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1971 at 10:11 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/016-131
National Archives Catalog: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417191511 (NAID 417191511)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello?
[0:05] Mr. Colson, Mr. President, here you are.
[0:16] Well, how are things in the home front?
[0:17] Well, I think they're fine, Mr. President.
[0:17] We can't quite keep up with the news you've been making in Bermuda and the Azores, but where do you think it's going?
[0:20] The Chancellor's program went very well at night.
[0:21] I'm sure you didn't watch it.
[0:22] No, I didn't ever watch these things.
[0:31] Well, it was good.
[0:31] It was very good.
[0:31] In fact, it got better as it went along.
[0:32] The ending was just as good.
[0:33] It just couldn't have been better.
[0:33] It's one of those things where I hope that NBC got their money's worth.
[0:37] They put so much into the damn thing.
[0:40] They put a hell of a promotion.
[0:43] How did they edit it?
[0:43] Did they do well or not?
[0:45] Yes.
[0:46] reasonably well, huh?
[0:52] Or not too well?
[0:53] No, I would say that I put it a bit more surprisingly well in front of that Chancellor at the end.
[1:05] He did a voiceover and he went back in to Sister Reed and he said to the kids, I didn't write it down precisely, but he said that this President is less...
[1:09] colorful the ending is very dramatic
[1:33] I wonder how many of you stayed to the ending.
[1:35] Did they hold the audience?
[1:37] That's a curious thing.
[1:44] Yes, I would say that it's hard for any of us who are working in the industry.
[1:54] Right, sure.
[1:55] The objective, I was just starting to make some calls around the piece from people who aren't supposed to.
[1:57] Right.
[1:57] I saw it on sound.
[1:57] There were parts where, as I say, they were listening.
[1:59] There he is.
[2:28] Well, they had to.
[2:53] to do it yourself completely.
[3:14] It was very thoughtful, and very reflective, and very strong in the time that you were in the West, with the change in policy between the 50s and the 60s, and the 20s and the 30s, and the end is very, very interesting.
[3:18] Now the beginning would be more, would kind of be fascinating to people who have never been in the White House, but people would watch that with great enthusiasm
[3:23] I wonder what Scali thought of it.
[3:29] He liked it.
[3:33] Of course, he's a pro.
[3:36] The thing that I was talking to Holloman about a moment ago, I said, well, you know, it may be one of those shows that appeals to the pros and not the people.
[3:46] Could be.
[3:48] No, I thought that.
[3:50] I didn't see it, but that would be my guess about the footage they took.
[4:13] How are the angles and all that today?
[4:34] I don't know that anybody else would notice it.
[4:53] I would notice it from knowing your voice.
[4:55] I don't know that the public would have noticed it, but the angles were good, and the lighting was excellent.
[4:57] Julie was very good when she came in and talked to you here.
[4:58] Very good.
[4:58] About Africa, or going to North Carolina, yeah.
[4:59] Right.
[4:59] And you were talking to her about Duke.
[5:00] And they got into part of that, too.
[5:01] You think it was perhaps less than what we would hope, though, huh?
[5:28] Alleman felt it was a little bit less than what we hoped, but he thought it was good.
[5:34] You know, I mean, everybody built up their hopes because Scali and the rest were so enthusiastic.
[5:48] Well, I talked to George Stapens.
[5:49] He reacted a little bit like I did in the first half hour.
[5:50] He was there.
[5:50] It's very hard to tell.
[5:51] It took me terribly long.
[5:55] What they used at the ending, the part when I came back to the White House?
[6:13] Yes, sir.
[6:25] In the morning, well, apart from the ratings, the important thing is the reactions once you check with the common folks.
[6:47] It's a little hard tonight because everybody's out Christmas shopping.
[6:51] How's Meany?
[6:59] Good.
[7:02] Think I should write him?
[7:06] Okay.
[7:06] I'll do it tomorrow.
[7:16] I'll do it by hand.
[7:17] My God, that's good.
[7:35] And suffrage, you know, is a decent guy.
[7:46] Right.
[7:47] We had, incidentally, a fantastically successful meeting with the British.
[7:53] I mean, it won't come through in the press, but it really was, you know, we really smoothed over all the sores.
[8:01] Now that we've done the French and the British, by golly, it really looks good.
[8:12] Well, it sure does.
[8:12] I think it's coming through that way.
[8:13] I called Mort Allen.
[8:13] Yeah.
[8:14] Oh, good old Mark.
[8:18] Yeah, why do you ask me?
[8:37] The news has been in the air just for about three weeks now.
[8:38] I think it may be used to turn the job over to someone else.
[8:40] We've been getting just a wave of really relevant, with the exception of Pakistan, according to kind of a negative, if people care, and I'm not saying they do, but with the exception of that,
[8:44] I guess the market went up a little bit today.
[8:58] Yeah, it went up three points.
[8:59] It's not bad.
[9:00] 8888, right?
[9:03] All right.
[9:14] You really think that turned up?
[9:26] John Connolly feels that very strongly.
[9:44] Goddamn well better be.
[9:52] When's the CPI?
[9:55] What is it?
[9:58] Christ's sake.
[10:07] No, it's going to be about two-tenths.
[10:11] Adjust it.
[10:13] What do you think?
[10:17] But you know these trips abroad they don't affect people here but you know to go and see the British and the French and in two weeks to just completely take them in which we did
[10:45] And they are really friendly.
[10:47] I mean, as Henry said, they know who the world leader is.
[11:02] Yeah?
[11:02] Well, that's what you know.
[11:02] That's what the president came through on that program tonight.
[11:04] Chancellor made a comment about that.
[11:04] You had given kind of a control back to the White House.
[11:11] Right.
[11:25] Of course, he set us up that Truman was more dynamic and Eisenhower was less, of course, as he was, less...
[11:37] You were less controversial, I bet you.
[11:56] You were less colorful and less controversial.
[11:58] I don't remember these places.
[11:58] I bet he said you were harder working than I was.
[11:59] Less stylish than Kennedy and more formal than Johnson.
[12:00] Yeah, for sure.
[12:01] Was that bad?
[12:01] No, I thought it was really good.
[12:02] Well, it was the tone he said it in the photograph while he was saying it.
[12:03] The ending had a hell of a dramatic question to it.
[12:04] It was a superb ending.
[12:05] That's right, yeah.
[12:05] You know, I think the Julie show on Christmas night would be a hell of a show.
[12:31] You know, the
[12:32] publicity about these shows may be more important than the shows.
[12:37] Well, did you see the full-page ad?
[12:39] I heard about it, yeah.
[12:46] Today, on this show, can you see really what it looks like?
[12:56] The full-page ad?
[12:57] You think I should write a letter to, well, not Sarnoff, but the Chancellor?
[12:58] Yeah, Chancellor.
[12:59] Uh-huh.
[12:59] I was going to say, the Chancellor had more to do with it than I did.
[13:01] Yeah.
[13:01] He's come around a long way for the right...
[13:03] I don't spend much time with the friends.
[13:23] I don't like the friends.
[13:24] But he invited me to a dinner party with his friends.
[13:25] And after dinner, he got me inside.
[13:26] He said, I'll tell you one thing.
[13:26] I'm a general friend.
[13:27] Everybody knows that.
[13:27] But nobody's going to be true American.
[13:28] I think he really did say that.
[13:31] Europeans all think that, you know.
[14:07] See, we spend with heath and also puppeteer 8, 10, 12 hours, you know, of tough negotiating.
[14:28] Oh, no, there's nothing to be suffered in this case.
[14:29] You're on bad old events.
[14:29] But I think the public gets a good feeling for this person.
[14:35] What's the other economic news?
[15:01] Give me that, will you?
[15:25] That's right.
[15:25] What about CBI?
[15:27] What do you think about the charisma argument?
[15:49] You know, the British French raised that.
[15:55] What about charisma?
[15:56] What do you think?
[15:57] It's one of the factors that goes into the equation, but I think today, frankly, the mood of the country is a hell of a lot less important.
[16:22] Charisma depends upon who's in, too.
[16:23] Well, that's right.
[16:23] And it depends on what the country wants.
[16:24] They wanted the charisma of John Kennedy in the early 50s.
[16:26] And today, they have enough of, you know, some pound weight and power, and they're table turning, and I'm leaving, and I'm going to get down to America.
[16:49] They want kind of a quiet...
[16:50] Followed.
[16:50] Cool guy.
[16:50] Exactly.
[16:51] And I'm gone now.
[16:51] I'm gone.
[16:51] I'll tell you a fascinating fact that I learned today, and certainly you've finished some more extensive polling, I think, in confrontations with me.
[16:56] It tells me a great deal about the public image that you expressed.
[17:12] One of the questions, of course, you're still getting higher than 80% of the public who remembers and can talk about your conversation with me now because of the political language.
[17:16] But one of the questions that was asked is,
[17:21] He said to the President, if the President of the United States doesn't want our cooperation and he knows what he can do, what is your opinion of him?
[17:41] 28.5% of the people said that they admired the President for saying he would do whatever he had to do for the country and he did what he could do.
[17:45] Another 31% said that he should go right ahead and do whatever it was he had to do.
[17:48] 60% said something had to be done to support the president.
[18:02] So you're getting about, still today, about 60% of the people who are remembering, well, 80% remembering, and 60% remembering your response.
[18:06] Pairing this show with one-on-one, do you think that the other would be better than this?
[18:12] with the one-on-one compared to the night?
[18:32] No, I think tonight is better.
[18:33] Because it was different.
[18:34] And because it gave people an insight that they don't normally get.
[18:35] And you got the benefit of the one-on-one if you can, with the questions, but you also get something different that I think people will watch, whereas I hope not just watch an interview.
[18:40] Check in the morning and see what your focus is.
[18:52] The most important thing is really to really get across a definite image.
[19:05] Well, that's the getting, but you're getting the image of a strong activist, but that's what the image of the police is.
[19:25] And that came through the night, by the way.
[19:26] The strong point to that day was during the Washington meeting, the drug meeting, when you were really boring in, not drugs, you said, I don't want to do it, let's get to the bottom of it.
[19:30] That's...
[19:31] That's very, very good.
[19:49] So you thought the show, it didn't job us, huh?
[19:55] Oh, no.
[19:56] Oh, no.
[19:56] It did job us a little.
[19:57] Good job.
[19:57] Does Gallagher agree?
[19:59] You said he called you, but of course he had a best of you.
[20:04] Well, he does, but he still is a pretty cool professional.
[20:21] He is.
[20:21] I've seen other things John has done.
[20:24] When he called and said, you know, we didn't handle that too well tonight.
[20:26] He was just abusive.
[20:26] He said he thought it was a landmark, kind of a program that people will talk about for a long time.
[20:28] That the network will want to rerun segments of, that the people will talk about.
[20:30] He's probably had a huge impact.
[20:32] I couldn't assess the beginning of it.
[20:59] I look at everything in the light of, well, how are people going to react to this?
[21:21] And I, you know, I enjoy them.
[21:21] But I want to know what are people thinking.
[21:22] And it's hard when you're so close to them.
[21:23] You know, I know what they're going to think.
[21:24] I don't think they respect you.
[21:25] Terribly dedicated.
[21:25] Terribly involved.
[21:25] You know?
[21:27] They want the country to be kind, which it is, but they want the president to be a long-term judge.
[21:55] I think that's coming through very well.
[22:16] What you're asking about the economics, you've got Peter working hard on this.
[22:28] Okay.
[22:53] Well, go to bed.
[22:56] Merry Christmas.
[23:04] Thank you, Mr. President.
[23:10] What was that?
[23:11] I was just saying thank you and thank you, Mr. President.
[23:12] I'll talk to you tomorrow.
[23:13] Okay.
[23:13] Thank you, Mr. President.
[23:14] Good night, sir.