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Conversation 017-005

TapeTape 17StartFriday, December 24, 1971 at 1:37 PMEndFriday, December 24, 1971 at 1:46 PMTape start time00:02:02Tape end time00:11:03ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Shultz, George P.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On December 24, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and George P. Shultz talked on the telephone from 1:37 pm to 1:46 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 017-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 17-5

Date: December 24,1971
Time: 1:37 pm - 1:46 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President talked with George P. Shultz.

[See Conversation No. 309-3]

Shultz's schedule

President's meeting with John D. Ehrlichman and Henry A. Kissinger

Defense budget
     -Numbers
     -Melvin R. Laird
           -Right wingers
           -Arthur F. Burns
           -Defending the budget
     -Kissinger
     -Laird will defend the budget
           -$82 billion outlay
           -$78.6 billion
     -Defense spending in fiscal '72
           -75.8
           -Monthly rate of expenditure
                 -Approximately $1 billion more
           -Effect on economy
     -Laird
           -Meeting with the President

Water Bill
    -Ehrlichman
    -Shultz
           -Budgetary implications
                -Amount
    -Appropriations
           -Congress
           -Override
    -Budgetary implications
    -Political implications
    -Veto
    -Edmund S. Muskie

Environment
     -Cleaning up the air
     -Political issue
           -Future discussions

Water Bill

     -Shultz to meet with Ehrlichman
          -Signature
                -Appropriations

Budgetary issues
    -Unknown issues to be discussed later

Money supply
    -Burns
    -President's influence on Burns
    -Burns
          -Voted to increase money supply
    -Burns's trip to Virgin Islands

Federal Reserve Board of Governors
     -Procedures for appointment
     -Burns
     -Warren E. Burger
     -"Fed" compared to Supreme Court
     -Burns

Foreign policy
     -Kissinger
     -India
     -Pakistan
           -US neutrality
                -Relief
     -Public reaction to possible US involvement in India-Pakistan War
     -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
           -Shultz’s view
           -War
                -India

Kissinger
     -Forthcoming call to Kissinger from Shultz

Public reaction to India-Pakistan War
     -Kissinger's reaction to press
           -Moral support for Kissinger
           -Joseph S. Kraft
           -Marquis W. Childs

          -Kissinger
               -Middle East
          -Wall Street Journal
               -Editorial
               -US foreign policy

          Christmas greetings

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/21/2017. 8s
segment cleared for release. 5s remain closed as 017-005-w002.]
[Personal Returnable]
[017-005-w002]
[Duration: 8s]

     Tennis
          -Weather
          -Peter Flanigan

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal Returnable]
[017-005-w002]
[Duration: 5s]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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     President's signing of the National Cancer Act of 1971 on December 23, 1971
           -Shultz's and daughters' attendance
           -Ceremony

     Movie "Brian's Song"
         -Ehrlichman
         -Monday night in White House theatre
         -American Broadcasting Company [ABC] movie
         -Brian Piccolo
         -Gale E. Sayers
         -Race relations
         -Shultz and family invited
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Mr. President.
I thought you were taking off today.
Well, I am at home right now.
Great.
I just wanted to tell you I just finished with Henry and John, and I'm just delighted that defense thing worked out.
I think it's fine.
The main, the only concern I have had, apparently you've answered, and that is I, as far as the numbers concern, I'm not
That doesn't bother me.
I just want to be sure Laird is on board so that he doesn't go around our backs to the right-wingers and Arthur and others, you know, and screw it.
So as I understand, he now will defend the budget.
Is that correct?
That's what I've been told.
Henry is the one who dealt with it.
Right.
Well, then the deal is made, and we'll stick by it.
And that's that.
What number did you finally get to?
I didn't ask him the number.
I just said, is it on track?
And Henry said, well, Laird will defend it.
So that's that.
We have an outlay, an obligational authority of over $82 billion.
And defense is doing as we are, namely writing all of our material in terms of that number.
The program content
The number that's referenced to the one we talked about is about $78.6 billion.
Yeah.
And that is really larger because of the... And then you put it down at seven and it comes in at $76.8 then.
It comes in at $76.5.
$76.5.
And among the reasons why it's easy for them to do that is they have agreed to really pour on the coal now in spending for the rest of fiscal 72.
And we'll probably bring in that at 75.8, we'll show that.
Right.
So that is going to mean a monthly rate of expenditure of about a billion more than anything they've done so far in this fiscal year.
Good, good.
Which ought to help us in the economy.
Well, I'll get Laird one of these days and tell him, look, Mel, let's fight for this.
And that's the main thing.
And we'll be all right.
The only other one that I had a question about, John raised the water bill with me.
He said that, as far as you were concerned, that it had grave budgetary implications, but that you would understand in the event we felt I had to sign the damn thing.
Well, it's not an immediate thing.
It's just that the budget level that we get committed to, you get up to $12, $15, $20 billion.
You've got to say, where is it?
What can we do in terms of...
appropriations in the future, would we?
That's right.
Congress has to face up to that at some point.
It's one of those things, I suppose, George, where we face an almost certain override.
Don't you think we have to do it?
I'm sure that you have to do it.
Well, I want you to know that my whole, as you know, I'm not keen on the water thing to begin with.
And second, I feel
recognize the budgetary implications but i think politically i just don't think we can borrow this trouble with the damn thing you know i just feel that what's what we have to do unless you feel that uh if you feel strongly i'll i'll veto it but i i just don't think i want to have a veto fight about this also it builds musky up too much sure and i don't think we'll do it so is that all right with you well it's all right with me i think at some point we got to do something we have to start talking sense about the environment
interested in cleaning up the air and everything.
I know, but George, you're absolutely right.
Everybody's nuts on this subject, but I think we're going to have to start talking sense at a time.
We can do something about it.
That's true.
Now, on the other things, I'll just leave it.
You can tell John that when you talk to him, and I've told him tentatively I've talked to you about it, that
go ahead on the...
I'll sign the damn bill.
But let's find ways to screw it up any way we can on the appropriation side, okay?
Okay.
No other items that are outstanding, are there?
I think, well, we've got all kinds of things we're wrestling with on the budget, but basically I think we... Well... Maybe that we'll have one or two things we'll have to come back to you on.
Sure.
I think we're basically set.
How's the...
I guess we...
You feel as far as Arthur and money supply, we've got that about as far as we can turn it right now, have we?
I mean, as far as my influence on him, that's what I'm really asking.
Well, you know, he said that they voted to increase it.
I know.
And he said I, what was his words?
He said, and I'm on the line on that.
I'm on the line.
That it increased, and that's what he said.
I put that in my little note.
All right.
Well, you watch it and then remind me if I have to talk to him again, and I'll do it.
Next time I'll just bring him in.
What?
I'm sure we'll have to keep after him on it.
Yeah.
But I think that you hit it just about right the other day.
He was leaving for the Virgin Islands and wasn't going to do any good anyway because he wasn't going back into his board at all.
Right.
I think it was good to have that discussion about the procedures for appointments so that he sees that he doesn't have complete control.
well he's just got to realize that it's uh like it is with burger it's virtually the same it's virtually the same deal sure and it's the way it ought to be like i'm not going to let him name these people well it's been quite a year mr president poor henry of course is so worried about india pakistan i said henry
We did the best we could.
We saved 40% of the damn country when it all could well have been lost.
And as far as the people of this country are concerned, they're just glad we stayed out of it.
Don't you think that's true?
They don't want us to get involved in the darn thing.
The startling thing to me there was that people didn't start saying with the way Kennedy was talking that this is the way Kennedy did before.
And if that's the way he looks at these things...
If he were ever president, he'd have us in a war in a matter of a year or two, for sure.
You mean the way which county?
Teddy?
Teddy was talking about...
It was almost as though if it were his deal, he should have had us over there right in the midst of that thing.
Sure.
On India's side, which would have really finished it off.
If you could... Henry's very emotional about this sort of thing.
You might
then your Christmas calls tomorrow, give him a call and say, look, we're all back of you, Henry, and don't be worried about the sniping, because you know how it is.
He's so...
He takes everything personally.
He reads these damn columns saying that this is a slap at Kissinger, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Well, he doesn't realize that the country doesn't look at it that way.
I don't think they do.
Do you?
I don't think so.
I don't think everybody's as steamed up about it as Joe Craft and Mark Childs.
Well, I think that it...
The substance of it, at least from what I've heard Henry talk about, the substance of it worries him particularly.
Oh, sure.
Back to the Middle East.
Sure.
Yeah, but on the other hand, we did the best we could.
And the Wall Street Journal editorial, did you see that one by any chance?
I did see that, yeah.
Well, that really is the best rationale for our policy that I've seen.
Henry hadn't seen it.
I told him to get a copy of it.
Okay.
Well, Merry Christmas.
Well, I brought two of my two oldest daughters over to the White House yesterday and got them in to watch you sign the cancer bill.
Oh, did you?
They enjoyed it.
That was a nice ceremony.
It was.
People are quite moved by that, you know.
And who knows?
Who knows?
Maybe... Oh, one other thing.
I told John to put on on the White House Theater Monday night.
the Brian song.
I don't know whether you saw it.
You probably didn't.
But it's an ABC hour and a half movie on Brian Piccolo and Gail Sayre.
It's the best thing in race relations that's been done in my memory.
And it's a beautiful movie.
So be sure to have you, your kids, anybody that are around, go Monday night to the theater to see it.
Will you do that?
I'll do that.
It's a really wonderful movie.
Okay.
Bye.
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