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Conversation 017-132

TapeTape 17StartSaturday, January 1, 1972 at 2:43 PMEndSaturday, January 1, 1972 at 3:56 PMTape start time04:39:43Tape end time04:53:10ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On January 1, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 2:43 pm and 3:56 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 017-132 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 17-132

Date: January 1, 1972
Time: Unknown between 2:43 pm and 3:56 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

[See Conversation No. 311-23]

     President's Vietnam announcement
           -Date of
                 -President spoke to H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
           -Hubert H. Humphrey's election announcement, January 10th
           -President's election announcement
                 -January 8th[?]
          -Date
                 -January 14th
          -Sunday
                 -Super Bowl
          -Kissinger spoke to Ellsworth F. Bunker
          -Troop announcement
                 -Prior to Congress convenes
          -Peace plan
                 -After President's State of the Union address
          -Troop announcement
                 -Television
          -Peace plan
                 -Timing release of
                 -Gen. Nguyen Van Thieu
                 -Bunker
                 -President's political opponents
                       -Peace initiatives
                             -Split
                       -Michael J. Mansfield’s proposal
                       -Bombing
                       -Thieu
                       -Pre-empting them
                       -Ceasefire
                       -Mansfield proposal
          -President's schedule
                 -Peace plan

      -Foreign policy report
      -Trip to People’s Republic of China [PRC]
      -Announcing peace plan after State of Union address
-Troop announcement
      -Advantages
-Humphrey's election announcement
      -Timing
-Troop announcement
      -Media coverage
            -Amount
      -Date
      -State of the Union Address
      -Peace speech
            -Possible scenarios
      -Vietnamese
            -Possible problem
-State of the Union Address
      -Mention of Vietnam situation
      -Possible inclusion of foreign policy in Address
      -Including troop announcement
            -Date
-Kissinger to speak to Melvin R. Laird
      -Draftees
-Troop announcement
      -Draftees
      -Whether to include in State of the Union address
            -Decision to do separately
-President's schedule
      -Troop announcement
      -State of the Union
      -Peace plan
      -Foreign policy report
            -Timing
      -Peace plan
            -Broadcast
      -Troop announcement
            -Including statement on draftees
            -Laird
                  -Leaks
                  -Kissinger’s concern
            -Kissinger to speak to Adm. Thomas H. Moorer on January 2, 1972

                -Peace plan announcement
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Hi, Henry.
The President.
On that date, I've got now the information from Holloman.
Right.
The situation is that, let's see, Humphrey is going on the 10th.
Right.
We can do ours.
Our own announcement thing is not a problem.
We'll have that out of the way any time we want.
And we can do it even before the 10th.
We might do it on the 8th.
just to be out of the way because it's a foregone conclusion that's going to happen.
Now that would open up the following week to catch it.
We could say perhaps
as late as the 14th.
We don't want to go as late as...
I was thinking of Sunday night, but that's the day of the Super Bowl, and I don't think we want to try to compete with that.
No, no.
Mr. President, I have had this idea for your consideration.
I've already gone ahead with bunker, and everything is moving to go on the earliest date you want to go, so nothing is slowing up.
Whether we mightn't split the troop announcement and the peace plan...
In other words, do the troop announcement before Congress comes back and hit them with a peace plan right after your State of the Union.
Yes, you could do that.
And with the troop announcement, I wouldn't... Then with that, I wouldn't go on TV.
I think the way you did it last time was very effective.
Do it as a... As a sort of 15-minute press.
You might do it as an office press one day.
Office thing without...
Well, there's something to be said for that.
Because that gives you two good shots, and then everything would be on the peace plan.
My worry now, my concern, Mr. President, with coming with a peace plan too early, the foreign policy part of it we will know in a few days.
what problems we're going to have with you.
We will know by Monday or Tuesday when Bunker replies.
The major concern I have now is this.
Right now, our opponents are split three or four different ways on peace initiatives.
Some are running after the Mansfield proposal.
Some are talking about bombing.
Some are talking about you.
Once we've got this on the table, then they can all rally on one line because then the only thing left is to go after, well, is to go after that plan.
Yeah.
For the first two or three weeks, it's going to go like the ceasefire.
For the first two or three weeks, it will sweep everything.
Yeah.
And therefore, it isn't all that disadvantageous supposing they come in with a Mansfield Amendment again.
We can prove that we made these proposals four months before they ever did.
And then if we could say make the peace plan, just for an example, around the 25th, then you'd have two weeks of riding that.
Then we come out with a foreign policy report.
Then you're going to China.
Then you are in the middle of March.
And then it's... Yeah.
That's the advantage of doing the peace plan a little later, while otherwise they might come back at you with a full-scale attack before you go to China.
I have no problem with whatever, with making the troop announcement as early as possible.
No, there's no problem on that.
In fact, and that, there's even an advantage in doing it
Around the 11th, 12th, whatever it suits you.
Well, if Humphrey goes on the 10th, we... Then you might want to do it the 12th or 11th, whichever you... Well, I think there's some advantage to putting it so that it hits the weekly news magazines and so forth.
I mean, well, it's not all that big.
Well, we could, any advantage of going earlier in the week than later, we could do it.
Which, the?
The troop announcement.
We could do it the 12th.
Oh, we could easily do it the 12th.
Well, but I mean, is that better than doing it the 13th or 14th?
We could do it one of those three days.
Our experience has been that as long as you get it before, by Thursday morning, by Thursday, you still get a good break.
Yeah.
Whatever that is.
The 14th is Friday.
That's a little late.
The 13th probably is a good day for two.
13th would be better.
The 13th gets the Friday papers pretty well.
Right.
And that carries into the weekend.
Well, we could do it the 12th or the 13th, yeah.
Either one of those states.
Just make a routine.
and then do the State of the Union and then come right back with a big peace speech?
I'm not sure in this instance that I...
I'm not quite sure that I would do a Q&A on it.
Well... You know, there's something to be said.
For not doing it?
For not doing it.
Although you do these office press conferences so damn well.
Well, I was thinking if what we might do is to do the announcement and then if we are going to do the peace thing, you know, one way you can do is to get a double bounce out of it and to say, when they answer questions, say, well, I'm going to be speaking to that issue in two weeks.
That's another thing.
At the end of the month, you intend to give a full accounting to the Congress of Vietnam.
The only danger is that the Vietnamese might beat you to the punch then.
The problem, of course, is still how to handle it in the State of the Union, which, of course, is...
That's my only real concern, you know, for getting it out of the way, is to the State of the Union.
And when the Congress gets in, that's more the State of the Union as to what to say about it.
Oh, I think we could draft two very strong paragraphs, Mr. President, very affirmative paragraphs.
I think this time the State of the Union should have a little foreign policy in it.
But if it has much on Vietnam, Henry, it's not going to be much if we just... My concern, Mr. President, you have... How about just, let's see, throwing the... No, if you delay the troop announcement to the State of the Union, I was thinking you could just throw it in there so you get...
Let that be the news of the year.
That's another possibility.
Because you could say we've withdrawn this many, and tonight I can tell you another batch is coming home.
I'm going to do it at noon, but let's see.
Let's see.
No, I tell you, it's better to have a bounce each week, you know what I mean?
Don't get major leads out of things.
We can easily do the troop announcement any time it fits into your schedule, the week of the 10th.
You can literally pick your day.
Well, my view would be probably the 12th or the 13th.
And...
Let's see what the...
I'm going to go back to lay it on that draftee's business.
Yeah.
Because that may be, maybe they just have to swallow that pill now.
Well, in my view, if you could put the troop announcement plus the draftees in, that would be a... Then it really would be a way to put in a peace plan, too.
That's right.
I would like, if we could do the troop announcement and the draftees, then it should be done separately from the State of the Union, I think.
I mean, I think this might let...
I'd like to have the State of the Union.
We're going to get so much foreign policy...
That's right.
Benefit from other things that I think we better...
I think if you have the troop announcement before, then the State of the Union domestic, then the peace plan right after the foreign policy, after the State of the Union, say the week after.
See, I will just say in the State of the Union that I'm going to make a major report.
I'm going to make a report to the Congress on foreign policy on blank.
And I will not cover it in this speech.
Yeah.
Just as I have before.
Right.
And we will have it ready this time on the 8th.
And we will announce it as of that time.
But let me see.
Go back to Laird and see if we can get the no more draftees thing.
And my recommendation would be to do the peace plan separate from the foreign policy report.
Oh, yes, it should come before.
Say around the 25th.
And then we would have a tremendous series of things every week.
Could actually do the, what I would think would be to do the Vietnam announcement on the 13th, maybe.
That's Thursday.
That's a Thursday.
It'd be good.
And then go on to the State of the Union the following Thursday.
Right.
And then go on to the peace plan.
Peace thing the following Tuesday or Wednesday.
No, I'd make it the
Yeah.
We could even, yeah, we could do it either after your Wednesday.
I'd do it before Thursday so that we can table it then on that Thursday.
That's good.
Right.
Then we could come on there.
So you could do it either Tuesday or Wednesday.
That way plan has to be, that'd have to be a broadcast, wouldn't it?
Yeah.
Peace plan, yeah.
If I could, on the 12th or 13th, if we could get the no draft tea thing in, it would give a little bit more of a lift out of the...
I think that is going to be a damn good lift to have, you know, prior to the Congress coming in.
And it's a good substitute for the peace plan.
I'm going to try to go for that.
I just think we ought to do it.
I mean, you know goddamn well it isn't going to make all that much difference anyway.
Well, what we may have to do...
When you're announcing basically 70,000 more out of Vietnam, you sure as hell don't have to say you're going to have to have more draftees.
Mr. President, I have almost reached the point where you may have to do this without telling Laird beforehand.
Oh, couldn't do that, Henry.
He'd go up, he'd just...
He'd go up the wall.
Yeah.
But you're afraid he's going to leak it out, huh?
Well, I'm afraid he's going to come back with so many caveats.
Let me talk to Moore.
He owes us one.
He sure does.
And let me tell him what the problem is and whether he could let the staff on the absolute QT work on that.
Yeah.
All right.
Do that.
I'll do that tomorrow.
And tell him that this time we want it done in terms of how it can be done and not why it cannot be done.
Right.
This is going to buy us some time, which we desperately need now.
Right.
And something before the Congress so that we don't give away on other things.
Right, Mr. President.
I will do that first thing Monday morning.
All right.
We'll try to figure the peace plan then around the 26th.
Okay.
That's right.
Bye.
Good.
Bye.
Bye, Mr. President.
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