Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 17 › Conversation 017-158

Nixon phone call with Woods on Dan Rather and Public Relations

Sunday, January 2, 1972 · 11:23 PM–11:28 PM ET · White House Telephone · 5 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Woods, Rose MaryConversation017-158 on Tape 17 (tape position 06:05:50–06:11:17)StartSunday, January 2, 1972 at 11:23 PMEndSunday, January 2, 1972 at 11:28 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 017-158 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and his personal secretary Rose Mary Woods discussed the positive public and political reception of the President's recent television interview with Dan Rather. Woods relayed enthusiastic feedback from William P. Rogers and Donald Rumsfeld, both of whom praised Nixon's composed performance and criticized Rather's unprofessional, combative questioning. The conversation also touched upon the President's firm stance regarding amnesty for draft evaders and the treatment of prisoners of war, positions that Woods felt resonated well with the public.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 1 minute of this recording (about 23% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Yeah.
What's going on?
Hello, Rose?
Yes, sir.
Hey, I talked with Bill Rogers, and I talked with Don Rumsfeld.
What'd they both say?
Well, they both thought it was good to come over to Maryland.
I know it's good, right?
Exactly what you said.
You said?
Oh, no.
Where are you?
I'm home, and I've got to do some washing, some laundry, and some all sorts of things before I get ready to go tomorrow.
Well, you don't have to go to the fire service anymore.
I know, but I have to keep working.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I wish I was doing what I do, but there's just too much to do.
But Bill Rogers said, I thought it was absolutely great.
He thought that some of the questions were perfectly silly.
That the questions were rather asked about the pledges and the campaigns.
One of the parodies said to him, you know, made him look like a stupid little guy.
He thought that you came over great.
And that, that the whole thing, he just thought you handled it so beautifully and never lost a fool.
And he said, you know, the hair pull bit, oh, it was getting tough.
It was stupid, but it was tough to handle this fool.
To handle these things too.
And he just thought you did it beautifully and never lost a fool.
Don Rumsfeld said, I thought he did a hell of a good job.
His responses to basically traffic were great.
He thought that it was, he thought that having Dan Rather there, that it was almost like, say, presidents were being,
put on the Teddy Kennedy-esque question about how bad he felt about the president.
Or that it was like a JFK letting Bill Buckley ask him the question.
And he thought, and he incidentally said, they watched it with neighbors who are friends of the Rathers and are Democrats.
And they felt that the president came off very well and rather looked like college editors.
And, boy, you can't.
Here's a guy who thinks he's a big shot.
But even his own neighbors thought that he looked like, you know, the editor of a college newspaper.
I wish he could ask better questions.
Oh, well, no.
He couldn't ask better questions because he's so damn dumb.
Well, he'd be smart.
Well, he's not smart.
Well, he was trying to...
If he'd been smart, he could have asked... Well, he asked what he thought were embarrassing questions.
That's what he asked.
But you were so much brighter than he and so much cooler than him.
And I think that one of the things that was evident is that anyone, almost everyone, would have wanted to get up and hit him.
And you didn't let on.
He'd ask anything that wasn't perfectly involved.
And this buzzed you.
And people loved it.
I think that's basically where it was.
And you did a good job.
And I personally thought that, like I said before, that answer on the M was too big.
But C-O-W, Carmen, over there, I am sure that in the long run,
Now that the TV stations are paying for stuff, the vice-church of Agnes, they have currently...
But I think... Well, I know that.
But you also said at this time...
But I don't know what that's all going to be, and I don't see it in my business.
But it was, I think...
I really think that answer on those guys who are on hand with you now and on the back end, I think that was great.
And I think that in the next two weeks, that's the thing that will get the answers, not the thing they pick up.
But the point is, they didn't think Americans chose to serve them.
That's right.
They didn't think Americans loved their country.
They didn't.
I wouldn't leave them out of the country.
I wouldn't let them back in ever, but then I'm nasty.
That's right.
After they're all back home, then you can look and see whether... As a matter of fact, it wouldn't be bad to let the POWs die whether those slackers get back in the country.
Or let them have a voice in the air.
But I think you can go to bed happy that you did a great job.
Yeah, that's what I just put.
Okay, sleep tight.
Good night.

NARA Description

On January 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 11:23 pm to 11:28 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 017-158 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 17-158

Date: January 2, 1972
Time: 11:23 pm - 11:28 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Rose Mary Woods.

     Calls Woods took in regard to President's interview with Dan Rather, January 2nd
           -William P. Rogers and Donald H. Rumsfeld
                -Praise for the President

     Woods's location

     Calls Woods took in regard to President's interview with Rather, January 2nd
           -Rogers's views
                -President’s style and ability
                -Rather's questions
                      -Rather
                -Louis Harris poll
                      -President’s style and ability
                -Rumsfeld's views
                      -Praise for the President
                      -Rather
                      -Edward M. Kennedy
                      -William F. Buckley, Jr.
                            -John F. Kennedy
                      -Watched with friends of Rather
                            -Rather
                                  -President’s style and ability

     President's interview with Rather, January 2nd
           -Rather's questions
           -Rather
           -Rather's questions
           -Praise for the President from Woods
           -Public reaction
           -Woods's reaction
                 -Amnesty
                 -Spiro T. Agnew
                 -Amnesty

                     -Prisoner of War [POWs]
                           -President’s answers to Rather’s questions
                           -Woods’ view

     Call from Rogers and Rumsfeld

Also recorded on January 3, 1972

  • 017-154 11:11 PM · 48 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 11:11 pm to 11:12 pm.
  • 017-155 11:12 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 11:12 pm.
  • 017-156 11:13 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 11:13 pm to 11:22 pm.
  • 017-157 11:22 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 11:22 pm.
  • 017-159 11:28 PM · 6 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 11:28 pm and 11:30 pm.
  • 017-160 11:30 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and William P. Rogers talked on the telephone from 11:30 pm to 11:35 pm.
  • 017-161 11:35 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 11:35 pm.
  • 017-162 11:36 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 11:36 pm to 11:42 pm.

All 105 conversations from January 3, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 017-158, January 3, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/017-158 (accessed October 10, 2026).