{"conversationCode":"017-162","tapeNumber":17,"conversationNumber":162,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-017-162","startDateTime":"1972-01-03T04:36:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-01-03T04:42:00.000Z","startDate":"2-Jan-1972","startTime":"11:36 PM","endDate":"2-Jan-1972","endTime":"11:42 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On January 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 11:36 pm to 11:42 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 017-162 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":2,"chronRelease":"Second Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"26-Oct-2000","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 17-162\n\nDate: January 2, 1972\nTime: 11:36 pm - 11:42 pm\n\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n     Reactions to President's interview with Dan Rather, January 2nd\n          -General reactions to President and Rather\n          -Creed C. Black\n                -Philadelphia Inquirer\n                -President’s style and ability\n                -Rather’s interview style\n          -Media\n          -President's instructions to H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n                -Rather\n                      -Colson\n                            -Media involvement\n          -Louis Harris's views\n                -Possible statement by Harris\n          -Frank Stanton\n          -William S. Paley\n\n     President's interview with Rather, January 2nd\n           -President answers\n                 -Amnesty\n                       -Return of Prisoners of War [POWs]\n           -[Unintelligible]\n           -Blacks compared to whites\n           -[Unintelligible]\n           -President's answers\n           -Rather's technique\n           -Meet the Press\n           -President's ability\n           -[Unintelligible]\n           -Colson\n                 -Rather","filename":["017-162.mp3"],"tapeStart":"06:16:15","tapeEnd":"06:22:16","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"017-161","nextCode":"017-163","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":8.7,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":8.72,"end":12.55,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":12.57,"end":23.9,"text":"Well, I have the machinery in motion."},{"start":23.92,"end":24.66,"text":"Anything to report until I go to bed?"},{"start":24.68,"end":25.92,"text":"Well, no, except the reactions are coming in just beautifully."},{"start":25.94,"end":27.07,"text":"We continue to get almost a universal positive reaction."},{"start":27.09,"end":28.93,"text":"About 20 to 25 percent of the people who are giving us comments are also mentioning rabbits."},{"start":28.95,"end":29.87,"text":"Most of them are taking note of your facility."},{"start":30.61,"end":59.28,"text":"I would, uh, hope that, uh, Senator Haldeman, that you would have your crowd there."},{"start":59.95,"end":77.64,"text":"I've got a pretty good, you know, rack him up pretty good."},{"start":77.66,"end":81.85,"text":"More in sorrow than in anger, you know, that we hate the son of a bitch, but you drop the ball and all that part of it."},{"start":81.87,"end":82.87,"text":"I think we can get some of this going in the heat."},{"start":82.89,"end":83.93,"text":"Also, I'm going to try to get Harris in the morning."},{"start":83.95,"end":85.21,"text":"Harris should be able to be embarrassed with the goddamn thing."},{"start":85.23,"end":85.45,"text":"Oh, he was."},{"start":85.47,"end":86.47,"text":"I'm going to try to get him to put it in the heat."},{"start":86.5,"end":87,"text":"He doesn't mind the cold."},{"start":87.02,"end":87.52,"text":"He doesn't care about it."},{"start":87.54,"end":88.04,"text":"He doesn't care about it."},{"start":88.67,"end":116.48,"text":"I've discovered that he has an unlisted home phone."},{"start":116.5,"end":116.83,"text":"Oh, rather have?"},{"start":116.84,"end":117.37,"text":"Well, I will do this to..."},{"start":118.24,"end":142.82,"text":"Well, whatever."},{"start":142.84,"end":143.84,"text":"But I'd also, uh, get from them to, uh... Stanton?"},{"start":143.86,"end":144.14,"text":"Stanton, yeah."},{"start":144.16,"end":144.46,"text":"And, uh, Haley."},{"start":144.48,"end":144.58,"text":"Okay."},{"start":144.6,"end":144.96,"text":"No, don't do that."},{"start":144.98,"end":145.04,"text":"No."},{"start":150.46,"end":175.67,"text":"Good."},{"start":178.91,"end":202.19,"text":"Also, the part about amnesty, I thought that was a good thing."},{"start":202.22,"end":202.31,"text":"Good."},{"start":203.95,"end":217.06,"text":"Well, in other words, we'll be very considerate, but not until we get the POWs back."},{"start":217.08,"end":217.18,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":217.2,"end":217.3,"text":"Sure."},{"start":227.27,"end":252.61,"text":"Well, but that's true, for Christ's sakes."},{"start":252.63,"end":252.91,"text":"He knows that."},{"start":252.93,"end":252.99,"text":"..."},{"start":258.59,"end":286.32,"text":"But I took them very well."},{"start":286.34,"end":286.98,"text":"That's the most important point."},{"start":287.35,"end":306.69,"text":"You don't believe in driving, because rather than do it, you just let them do it."},{"start":306.71,"end":312.76,"text":"It is a technical issue, and I was kind of studying it, and I was trying to tell you, and several times, you will have to be free from your environment, which is the way you might say you're not going to be able to drive, because you know that it's crazy, and it's crazy, and it's the opposite of that."},{"start":312.78,"end":314.35,"text":"And you kind of make yourself feel under pressure, and you just want to do it."},{"start":314.37,"end":315.97,"text":"You know, basically, no matter how hard you try to put the pressure on yourself,"},{"start":321.95,"end":347.23,"text":"I just thought it was beautiful."},{"start":347.25,"end":348.05,"text":"I thought that the other one was better."},{"start":348.07,"end":348.33,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":348.35,"end":348.65,"text":"It's different."},{"start":348.67,"end":348.93,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":348.95,"end":349.21,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":349.23,"end":349.49,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":349.51,"end":349.77,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":349.8,"end":350.06,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":353.44,"end":357.69,"text":"Okay."},{"start":357.71,"end":358.32,"text":"Yeah, keep the gear on him."},{"start":358.34,"end":364.87,"text":"Okay, Chuck, thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson reviewed positive public and media reactions to Nixon’s January 2 interview with CBS correspondent Dan Rather. The conversation focused on the political benefits of the President's performance, particularly his firm stance on delaying amnesty until the return of prisoners of war. Nixon directed Colson to continue pressuring Rather and to coordinate with White House staff to amplify the favorable coverage.","topics":["Dan Rather","Public opinion","POWs","Amnesty","Media relations","Charles Colson"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T00:56:33.644Z"},"topicSlugs":["dan-rather","public-opinion","pows","amnesty","media-relations","charles-colson"],"audioDurationSec":365,"audioFiles":[{"file":"017-162.mp3","bytes":8759587,"durationSec":364.91,"bitrate":192038,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:24.937Z","transcriptGapSeconds":245,"transcriptGapShare":0.67,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/017-162.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/017-162","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/17/conversation-017-162","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}