{"conversationCode":"018-010","tapeNumber":18,"conversationNumber":10,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-018-010","startDateTime":"1972-01-03T17:16:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-01-03T17:18:00.000Z","startDate":"3-Jan-1972","startTime":"12:16 PM","endDate":"3-Jan-1972","endTime":"12:18 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Shultz, George P.; Weinberger, Caspar W. (\"Cap\");","description":"On January 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, and Caspar W. (\"Cap\") Weinberger talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 018-010 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 18-10\n\nDate: January 3, 1972\nTime: Unknown between 12:16 pm and 12:18 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with George P. Shultz and Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger.\n\n[See Conversation No. 642-34]\n\n     The President's call to George E. Allen\n          -Harry Hopkins story about requisition for shovels\n               -Public Works Administration [PWA]\n               -Works Progress Administration [WPA]\n          -Melvin R. Laird","filename":["018-010.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Shultz, George P.","Weinberger, Caspar W. (\"Cap\")"],"prevCode":"018-009","nextCode":"018-011","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":2.05,"text":"Hello."},{"start":2.07,"end":2.65,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":2.67,"end":4.76,"text":"Mr. Schultz and Mr. Weinberger."},{"start":4.78,"end":4.96,"text":"Hello."},{"start":5.1,"end":5.64,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":5.66,"end":9.43,"text":"Well, I just got a call, talked to George Allen on the story better than I thought."},{"start":10.75,"end":21.18,"text":"Back in the 30s, in the early, when Harry Hopkins was here, and he was in charge of PWA or WPA, I don't know which it was, but one of those two."},{"start":22.12,"end":23.19,"text":"He got a wire."},{"start":23.86,"end":35.77,"text":"desperately from the PWA director in California, asking for approval of a requisition for 5,000 shovels."},{"start":37.02,"end":42.52,"text":"And Hopkins ripped off a wire back to him and said, tell them to lean on each other."},{"start":43.08,"end":46.67,"text":"So you tell Laird to have them lean on each other."},{"start":47.21,"end":47.91,"text":"Fair enough."},{"start":47.95,"end":48.49,"text":"Very good, sir."},{"start":48.55,"end":51.98,"text":"Now that's the laugh for the year, and you can pass it to all the staff, Cap."},{"start":52,"end":52.38,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":52.55,"end":53.07,"text":"Okay."},{"start":53.13,"end":53.67,"text":"Very good."},{"start":53.69,"end":54.49,"text":"Thanks a lot."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon recounted an anecdote about Harry Hopkins and the Works Progress Administration to George Shultz and Caspar Weinberger to illustrate his frustration with departmental budget or supply requests. The President used the story, which involved a director being told to have his workers 'lean on each other' rather than receive more shovels, as a directive for Shultz and Weinberger to relay a message of fiscal restraint to Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird. The call served as a lighthearted but firm instruction to curb administrative spending.","topics":["Fiscal policy","Budgetary restraint","Melvin R. Laird","Government administration","Humor"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T00:58:01.511Z"},"topicSlugs":["fiscal-policy","budgetary-restraint","melvin-r-laird","government-administration","humor"],"audioDurationSec":55,"audioFiles":[{"file":"018-010.mp3","bytes":1312181,"durationSec":54.6,"bitrate":192245,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:24.937Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/018-010.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/018-010","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/18/conversation-018-010","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}