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Conversation 018-017

TapeTape 18StartSunday, January 9, 1972 at 12:41 PMEndSunday, January 9, 1972 at 12:52 PMTape start time00:25:44Tape end time00:37:17ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On January 9, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 12:41 pm to 12:52 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 018-017 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 18-17

Date: January 9, 1972
Time: 12:41 pm - 12:52 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

[See Conversation No. 312-4]

     Happy birthday for the President

     Weather in California

Vietnam troop withdrawal announcement for January 12, 1972
     -Timing
     -Department of Defense [DOD] briefing
     -Melvin R. Laird's role
           -The President’s role
           -Statement to press
           -Credit to Laird
                 -Vietnamization
     -Prisoners of war [POWs]
     -Laird's efforts
     -[David] Kenneth Rush
     -Kissinger's forthcoming talk with Laird
     -Laird's briefing of the press
           -The President’s role
           -Rush
           -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
           -Negotiations
           -Forthcoming announcements
                 -Timing
           -Troop withdrawals
                 -POWs
     -Timing

Rush
       -Kissinger’s recent conversation with Mitchell
            -Laird
       -Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR], Strategic Arms Limitation Talks
            [SALT]
       -Qualifications for the job
            -Germany
            -Defense Department
            -Loyalty

Sheik Mujibur Rahman's trip
     -New Delhi and Dacca
     -Airport arrival
           -Possible diplomatic reception
                 -Islamabad
     -Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
           -Release of Mujibar Rahman

Bangladesh

            -Pakistan
                 -Possible recognition
            -Mujibur Rahman

     US recognition of Mujibur Rahman
          -Diplomatic reception
               -US political counsellor’s presence
                     -Compared to ambassador
          -People's Republic of China [PRC]
          -Timing
          -Pakistan
          -The President’s forthcoming trip to the PRC
          -US political counsellor

     Haig
            -Trip to the PRC
                  -Hangchow
            -Return to the US

     Morning newspapers

     Malta
          -British withdrawal from military bases
                -Italy
                -Edward R.G. Heath
          -Soviet Union
                -Possible base
          -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO] offer
                -Italy
          -British
                -Heath, Dominic Mintoff

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number LPRN-T-MDR-
2014-012. Segment exempt per Executive Order 13526, 3.3(b)(1) on 12/08/2017. Archivist: DR]
[National Security]
[018-017-w001]
[Duration: 9s]

     MALTA

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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     Italian government
           -Future prospects
                -Possible visit by the Italians

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[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number
LPRN-T-MDR-2014-012. Segment declassified on 12/08/2017. Archivist: DR]
[National Security]
[018-017-w002]
[Duration: 3s]

     Italian government
           -Republican Party in Italy
                -Kissinger’s description

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     Italian government
           -Republican Party in Italy
                -Possible visit by the Italians
                     -The President’s forthcoming trip to the PRC

     Kissinger in California
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Dr. Kissinger on the line, Mr. President.
Hello.
I wanted to wish you a happy birthday.
Oh, thanks, Henry.
Thank you.
How's the weather?
Any better?
Yes, it's warming up now.
I hope so, yeah.
And it's... Is the sun shining or is it foggy?
The sun is shining.
That's good.
That's good.
Very pleasant.
Well, let's see.
It's 10 o'clock out there, so it ought to be... You ought to have a very good day.
Good.
What I was calling you about is about...
the announcement on Wednesday.
I thought it might be... Is it Wednesday or Thursday?
Well, it's the 12th.
I don't know.
I thought it was the 13th, but it makes no difference.
Well, it doesn't make any difference.
We'll see.
I'll have to check here to see how it fits with that, or we'll do it one of the two days, the 12th or 13th, but any of them.
It occurs to me that it might be well to, so that I don't want to, of course, be questioned at all.
But on the other hand, the defense always gives a little briefing on those things, don't they?
Yes.
Why would it not be to have Laird come over, and then I just walk out with him and say, I'm announcing this, and the Secretary will brief the press on the details.
lets him get in the show a little bit, the act.
He'll be doing it anyway, and I'll talk to him about what he shouldn't and shouldn't say.
Do you think that's a good idea?
I see no problem with that.
You'll probably like it.
Well, it gives him a little, you know, some credit for his Vietnamization policies.
All he has to be sure he's on the right track with regard to
Any questions about POWs and so forth?
He usually has handled those well, though.
Yeah.
Does that sound like a good idea to you?
It sounds like a good idea.
I don't have to worry about it taking credit, but...
Oh, well, there's no... At this point, I don't think the credit's to... No, I think it's a nice fit.
You see, at this point, it isn't a hell of a lot of difference.
We've moved along, and those efforts have been rather pitiful anyway.
They haven't gotten across, do you think, very well?
No, I think it's a generous...
Now, did you get to him first?
Does he know about this announcement yet, the number?
I'm going to be talking to him in a little while.
Fine.
Well, that'll give you...
Right.
Now, when you talk to him, you can talk about this and say, let's hold it, and then the idea that he would go over and that I'll make the announcement in one sentence and then turn the...
press over to him for the briefing on it, and that he would say that we would, you know, you can sort of start with that.
That'll soften him up for the rush thing.
Right.
And then that we, I think that then just ask him to maybe check with Higg or somebody on our, I don't know, give him a couple of talking points with regard to the negotiation side so that he'll, what about the next announcement, what will be made during the month of April?
before May 1st.
Will it be a final announcement?
Well, the President pointed out that there can be no final withdrawal until we have settled the POW matter.
What about negotiation?
I'm not going to go beyond what the President's already said.
And, well, what about the withdrawal?
That's the deadline.
Gentlemen, you saw what they said last.
He ought to really make hard that point.
Light advantage in doing it on Thursday, that they can't comment on it the next day.
Yeah, that's fine.
It's all right with me.
Thursday's a good day, then, if that's the case.
Just agreement to them right there.
All right.
And so you can call him.
Now, on the rush thing, I think...
I talked to Mitchell about the run yesterday.
He thinks we ought to go ahead with it.
He does.
And he thinks that Laird's opposition can be overcome.
Well, the point is that this is basically the kind of a man Laird has been looking for.
He just looks at his qualifications, but he has the advantage of knowing all about MBFR and SALT, right?
Oh, yeah.
And that is an enormous advantage for whoever's in that position.
He knows the Germans.
That's right.
He doesn't know the Defense Department as well.
He's a much superior person.
You can say that he admires Laird.
I'll give him a little of that.
He's a hard-line follower.
He's what we need.
He's a good, loyal man.
We've also found that he's been impeccably
discreet and loyal as never really can.
You might say that to Laird.
Sort of impressive.
He'll impress the hell out of them.
Okay.
Well, what else is new?
Do you have any other conversations while I was gone?
We have one.
The question is Moojib is going back to Delhi and to Dhaka today.
Yeah.
And the question is whether any of our diplomats should be at the airport.
I've told him to check with Islamabad to find out.
I don't see that we can make a hell of a lot of points at this point.
Well, I don't know what...
He's been released by...
He's been released by Butoh.
But he is... Is Butoh... You know, that's the other thing, I suppose, that whatever we do with regard to...
Bangladesh, that pretty much will resolve itself if the Paks recognize it, won't it?
Oh, yeah.
If the Paks recognize it, then we are home free.
Yeah.
And that's what I think they're going to do.
And that's what I suspect they're going to do.
Yeah.
But as far as Mooji was concerned, what would be the point in going to Ratatouille?
Well, because the presumption is that every other diplomat in Delhi and
One possibility is that instead of the ambassador, the political counselor goes to the airport so that we are represented.
Yeah.
Well, it doesn't cost us anything to let the counselor go, but I wouldn't, until he, otherwise you're giving them de facto recognition.
Well, that's one of the problems.
And, of course, the Chinese, and now that we've paid already, they have a price.
Yeah.
Well, I don't want to fall over them right away.
That's the point.
We'll eventually have to go that way.
We know that.
No question about it.
But I don't think we need to fall all over him right at the beginning.
We have to go this way, and he will have to come our way.
Yeah.
And if, of course, the Pakistanis recognize it, that doesn't matter.
That's right.
But if we could hold it until we've been in China, in only four more weeks... Why don't we just let the political councillor go?
I mean, we want to do it at the highest level, because after all, he is not yet a government we recognize.
That's the point.
I think...
That would be my reaction, but I don't feel too damn strong about it.
I don't think it's going to make that much difference.
Except in a negative way.
In a positive way, we can't get to any points.
Yeah, yeah, I'm...
Okay, and nothing else, no other reports from Haig?
He's probably on his way back now.
He's out of contact because in Hangzhou, he had to go down by train to Hangzhou because they are rebuilding the airport.
And so he's out of communications now until he leaves tomorrow morning.
Mm-hmm.
In fact, at least tonight our time.
Sure.
He gets back Monday or Tuesday, doesn't he?
He's coming back Monday afternoon.
Boy, he'll be tired.
Oh, that's a killer.
Yeah, yeah.
That's a real killer.
Yeah.
Do it in one job.
I see nothing else, particularly in the morning papers, that are of interest.
No, I'm glad.
Yeah, yeah.
I just looked him over here.
There's the Maltese and the British.
It now looks as if the British are really determined to get out.
Is that right?
And the Italians, that he's really, there's something wrong with that guy.
Yeah?
You think so?
I mean, he just is bullheaded to a point where it becomes almost an end in itself.
And we can't let the Russians have a naval base there.
What the hell can we do about it?
Well, we're going to try to see whether NATO will turn it into a NATO base.
The Italians are very concerned.
I see.
And on Tuesday, we're going to see whether we can turn up a NATO offer.
And we've told this to the British, and the British owe us an answer.
I see.
We haven't.
We won't do it without getting their answer.
What the hell?
I can't understand why the British would want to give up any of the balance of their power, wherever it is.
Well, it's turned into a personal contest between Heath and Minto.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Well, that's interesting.
It's pretty hard to ride with all the problems we've got, Henry, to have to have Malta through, isn't it?
That's right.
Almighty.
The Italian government looks as if it's going to fall, so you'll be spared a trip, a visit by the Italians.
Why is it going to fall?
The Republican Party has withdrawn from the coalition, and that's going to bring them all down.
Oh, God.
Well, it always happens after a presidential campaign, election day.
Then what do they have to do?
Have parliamentary elections?
No, no.
But they now have a four-week ticker about... Who's going to be the next prime minister?
Right.
I mean, they'll have to... Well, we don't have to see them then, do we?
We have.
We offered them the 25th, but I don't think it can last until the 25th.
Yeah.
Right.
So I think we may be home free.
Yeah.
And if he falls, it'll be around the 18th or 19th.
Yeah.
And then they can't have a government before we leave for Peking.
Right.
Well, that's fine.
Okay.
Right.
Well, I hope you get a little sun and get everybody gone.
It ought to be peaceful out there.
Right.
Well, we're all working on the end.
Okay.
Bye.
I hope you have a pleasant day.
Thank you.
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