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Conversation 018-059

TapeTape 18StartMonday, January 10, 1972 at 7:44 PMEndMonday, January 10, 1972 at 8:06 PMTape start time02:08:20Tape end time02:30:31ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles W. Colson reviewed recent public opinion polling data, specifically focusing on the Louis Harris poll and its implications for the 1972 presidential election. They discussed the President’s standing against potential Democratic rivals like Edmund Muskie, noting how foreign policy events, such as the India-Pakistan War and the bombing of North Vietnam, affected approval ratings. The two concluded that the administration remained in a strong position, particularly as economic indicators showed signs of improvement and positive domestic events provided potential momentum for the campaign.

1972 electionPublic opinion pollsForeign policyEconomyEdmund Muskie
AudioNARA Description

On January 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 7:44 pm to 8:06 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 018-059 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 18-59

Date: January 10, 1972
Time: 7:44 pm - 8:06 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

     Colson's health

     Louis P. Harris poll
          -Issues
                -India-Pakistan War
                -The economy
                -Foreign affairs
                      -Peace
                      -December 1971 bombing of North Vietnam
          -Timing

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/21/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[018-059-w002]
[Duration: 1m 45s]

     Presidential preference poll
          -Probable voters
                -Edmund S. Muskie

          -Tightening from November poll
          -Candidates
               -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
               -George C. Wallace
          -Figures

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     Presidential approval poll
          -Issues affecting results
                -Harris poll
                      -Compared to George H. Gallup poll
                -India-Pakistan War
                      -Press
                -US relations with the People's Republic of China [PRC] and the Soviet Union
                -Bombing of North Vietnam
                -India-Pakistan War
                -Edmund S. Muskie
                      -Age and income groups
                -Support for the President
                      -Economic issues

     Poll on ability to handle issues
           -Muskie
           -Calls to Colson
           -Economy
           -Vietnam
           -Poor
           -Crime
           -Environment
           -Health and education

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/21/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[018-059-w003]
[Duration: 50s]

      1972 election
             -Louis Harris's analysis
                    -Edmund S. Muskie as primary opponent
                    -Strategies
             -Louis Harris's analysis
                    -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy, Hubert H. Humphrey

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     Support for the President's handling of issues
         -India-Pakistan War
         -Bombing of North Vietnam
         -The economy
         -Foreign affairs

     Harris and Gallup polls

     The economy
          -Strengths

     Foreign policy
          -Recent actions
                -United Nations [UN] vote, foreign aid issue

     Harris poll
          -The economy
          -Foreign policy

     Christians’ and Jews' opinion of Muskie

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/21/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[018-059-w004]
[Duration: 1m 3s]

     Hubert H. Humphrey
         -Announcement of candidacy

                -Comment about 1968 election and the Vietnam War

     Joseph W. Alsop's column
          -Eugene J. McCarthy
               -Harris poll
               -Inclusion in trial heats

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     Positive events for the administration
           -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon's trip to Africa
           -Japanese meeting
           -San Diego trip
           -January 5, 1972 approval of space shuttle development program
           -Eisaku Sato's visit

     Timing of polls
          -Paul W. McCracken's press conference
          -December 1971 bombing of North Vietnam
          -India-Pakistan War
          -Effect of events
                -Public opinion

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/21/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[018-059-w005]
[Duration: 44s]

     1972 campaign
          -Television appearance by Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr., John N. Ashbrook
               -Charles W. Colson’s analysis

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     Stock market
          -Status

               -Investor confidence

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[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/22/2017.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[018-059-w006]
[Duration: 3m 38s]

     Louis Harris
          -Edmund S. Muskie
          -Timing of next trial heats
                      -People’s Republic of China (PRC)
                      -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR)
          -Results of polls
                -Inclusion of candidates
                      -John V. Lindsay
                      -Humphrey
                -Edmund S. Muskie
                      -Gains
                            -Age and income group
                            -White suburban voters
                -Foreign policy
                -The President's interview with Dan Rather
                -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
                -Appeal of Democrats

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     Colson's health
          -Schedule
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Good evening, Mr. President.
Well, you survived the day?
Well, I was laid up a little bit with the flu today.
Oh, well.
Well, stay in bed.
Are you in bed or just home?
No, I stayed in bed today.
Absolutely.
Well, I wish I were like you.
Well, you were, no, but you've been pushing hard, you know, and I know you haven't been in the sun much, but stay right there and don't, we're needed for other battles.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
I suppose the bombing, too.
Yeah, it's a bad time.
We'd better expect the polls to go up and down, though.
Yeah, and he thinks it's a one-time push.
He really does.
Thank you.
That's not bad, though.
No, it isn't.
That's, you know, considering the 53 could have been a flip-up, you see, in 49.
And if it's 49-47 here, it's still 49-15 Gallup, you know, that kind of thing.
Well, I don't mind the 49-47s.
Yeah.
Oh, that'll pass.
It'll pass because basically that's just a press thing.
And it passes because people realize it doesn't affect them.
Yeah.
That means each of the other categories, other than foreign policy, all of the foreign policy categories are maintaining relationships with China, maintaining relationships with Russia.
All of them are down with a very large uncertainty.
during the bounding, you know, with the NUFAC event.
Sure.
And on the NUFAC event, you get a very low rate.
Oh, well, I'm sure of that.
Yeah, very low.
Couldn't possibly get anything else.
There were only two areas in which Marcy made any gains over the previous one week, which is over $15,000.
And that would be it.
They would be...
and certainly in foreign policy.
That's good.
Now on the economic side... That's good.
That's good, because you're the war change support policy, and that's where we have a great majority.
Because for the first time in two years, a majority, and I'm going to play this very nice song, a majority of the American people do not expect to realize that we're actually in the middle of the war.
Now, in November,
That's the first time in three years when the majority of the message is not based either in terms of doing more good than harm to make an economic policy.
You know, let me say that doesn't bother me, because it's as well the show, but it keeps our own people on edge.
So let him be up now, you know, let him get down with it.
Well, I had three people, as I said, many of you, uh, from the government, but three people called me last week to do a political test, and I was, uh, sitting in a row, and I was like, uh, seven, and I had a count, and I was like, you know, you've got to take too much credit for what you're doing.
So, uh, if you're getting that problem on, I'll be there.
Sure.
So, you may need it, but...
Terrible sports.
Which candidate do you believe does a better job with a problem than you do?
Which is the people that you're pretty happy with?
Well, I think, you know, it's going to be the economy of the 38,000 cities and Vietnam.
That's what we're going to do.
They're all kind of close, so... Well, but we're ahead of the...
Yeah.
Thank you.
But I don't think, frankly, I'm not surprised because I'm inclined to think that more than India, Pakistan, which I don't think affects a hell of a lot of people, I think the bombing thing probably hurt them.
The bombing may have been because it may have just been.
But it wasn't in the news so much.
It sort of makes me wonder whether the war is still going.
Well, that's right.
In the negative column, the president said, you didn't really do better than any of these people.
Well, we have a...
We've got to figure that our economic stuff helps us, our foreign policy can hurt us, but we aren't.
We're still in pretty good shape.
You say that his positive-negative is 49-47.
That's pretty good for Harris.
Well, that's right.
Now, if you're going to remember it, it's Gallup.
You're going to be 49 with Gallup, too.
That's right.
I would think so.
Well, we should.
Combination.
And then it dropped down to, it dropped way down, almost to a negative of 48, 49.
So you see if the, so you, it may be, comparing it with the second one, there hasn't been a shift in things.
No, that's right.
You said we're up, actually, completely to, we don't see it right now, but it's up in the real figure.
It's up in the real figure.
And after the U.S. goes to the foreign aid, they drop down, I'm sure.
I agree.
Well, that's not bad.
But as he said, if he could even hold what we have right now, this is winning because he went on the issue.
With the economic stuff turning up, he feels the economy looks good.
Yes, sir.
He said that's been showing an absolute steady increase.
And in every category it has.
Yes, sir.
When Sue come with him, in July, he was rated 2273.
And that's now 3856, which is up from November 3460.
And that's just every single error total.
It's still not even, but it's coming up.
That's right.
But, you know, if that gets up to 5660,
Well, he wasn't disturbed by it.
He wanted to.
He doesn't see it.
He doesn't.
He doesn't.
He doesn't.
He doesn't.
He doesn't.
He doesn't.
Okay, what else is there?
Of course, that isn't reflected in this either.
You know, we've had some very positive stuff in the last week.
You know, they, uh, they had this, the, uh, Japanese, you know, that sort of thing.
I think, uh, that isn't reflected in the poll.
No, it wouldn't be, because January 4th would have been, uh, an athletic year, which, that would be, uh, the San Diego championship.
That would be, uh, the, uh,
We pulled at a tough time, so I just well know what it is, a tough time.
At the bombing, you see, even though our
I think that much more than my guess my guess
If we can't control it, we can't control the world.
All right, we're coming over.
It lost a couple of points, I believe, at its best.
Well, it was off about eight hours at minimum, I think, to trade point-trick, and it did bounce right back at the blue.
It was about a really point-trap, but it was nice to show.
I think it will do.
It's become a very healthy trend.
Yeah, the markets, we just want to keep it bubbling along.
Thank you.
Well, you keep well now.
You've got a week left.
I mean, the 18th of May.
We'll be up in a minute.
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