Nixon phone call with Colson on State of the Union and Edmund Muskie

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Hello.

Good morning, Mr. President.

Well, you're still in bed.

Well, I'm home.

That's good.

I'm sitting up at my desk today.

Well, now, don't press yourself, because there are other things, too, games we can play.

I'm like you are.

Still got a fever?

Hate to be down.

I think I do a little bit, but... Well...

Well, just nurse it out, believe me, because when you've got one, you've got to play it very close to the vest.

After four days, I'm a little sick of it.

I'm just itchy to get going.

Sure, sure.

Okay, that's good.

Well, we won't bother you there.

I'm going to leave today to work at Camp David and work for a couple of days in the State of the Union.

I'm going out of circulation.

Well, it's a good time for all of us to kind of take a picture of things.

I've been sitting here this morning just sort of reviewing what things I have to do and get down and sit.

Right.

I guess every now and then to stand back from the back.

Sure, sure, sure.

Maybe a blessing in disguise.

Yeah, not be too concerned about what happens at the moment, but more in terms of the other things.

As I say, the

You know, I was thinking, too, that typical like your Harris Bowl, I actually think that's really about what I would expect and pretty good at this time, having in mind what we've been through, you know.

Although we did have very positive stuff.

Unfortunately, if we hadn't had the bombing, frankly, I don't think the Indian thing is, I would disagree with him on that because I know enough about the male reaction risk, but

with the bombing, but if we hadn't had that, we'd have probably been up around 53 or 54 again.

I think so.

That's one of those things.

I think it's the bombing.

And the fact that it didn't change significantly with Humphrey or Kennedy is also amusing and interesting.

It shows you that Muskie has a certain solid hole there.

I read Hallett's memorandum.

I think there's a lot in that.

I'm not sure that I...

I mean, it may be that he's...

that he sees all of our weaknesses and none of their weaknesses, but that's inevitable.

No, but he does that deliberately, Mr. President.

Yeah, but I mean, and he should, but what I meant is that they have some problems, too.

But on the other hand, his point that we have really had a lot of bombshells and still are only running two to three points better than we were before is a pretty good point, you know?

Well, it is, except I disagree with him on this, that I think we were, I think that

The bombshells helped bring us back from a period in which we had been pretty well down.

You know, if you look at the poles like... You mean in the spring?

In the spring.

That was really rough going.

Yeah.

He had just murdered us on Laos.

Yeah, that was a rough time.

That's when we had our lowest point.

Yes, sir.

And to be able to... Then we came back up in Gallup to about 50, and we've stayed there ever since.

Exactly.

But to be able to bring it back and hold it more here, I think, is good.

It's interesting.

I...

Excuse me.

I talked to Buchanan this morning, and Pat is doing a lot of research on the Democratic opponents, and I told him of the poll with Harris, and it was an honest poll that was working with us.

And he said, I would have expected Muskie to have been ahead of us.

And I said, why is that?

And he said, well, my God.

He said, you look at the media, he's had a solid month of blooming publicity.

Very positive publicity.

That's right.

And he said, you're just going to have to... Of course, we've had some, too.

We've had it, too, but he... Yeah.

But Muskie came out of, kind of out of obscurity, where he was for three or four months.

Right, right.

And put on a real drive.

So we've probably done better than we deserve.

And he thinks that nobody will be able to... that Muskie will not be able to sustain that unless...

unless he really gets it if he gets a bandwagon going wins the primaries then he's going to be tough for us because he will he will avoid yeah well he could have problems there well let's we've now i'm now convinced by something we've got to be sure that he does have i don't know that we can but we'll see well in all ways possible somehow it's memo i had some reservations on sending that to you because no no i want to see some uh now and then something like that i have to remember with doug that he

He never gives us credit for it, deliberately.

And I make this point with him.

I say, Doug, you don't give us credit for things.

And he said, no, I don't consider that my role here.

He wants to take a chance to keep my detached object.

And he said, I think you're making, he said, I think we make three or four.

He sure gives the speechwriters hell.

Very narrow on that.

He thinks that we need Nathan Glazer or Daniel Boorstin.

Yeah, well, you can't get them.

Give us some intellectual...

Well, it's inevitable.

He may have a point there.

Well, you can't get them, so there's the point.

It's well taken, but they won't come.

Well, he argues, of course, with the muskie inroads in the suburbs that if we had someone who would give us that...

This may be more of an eastern attitude, however.

You can't tell about that.

I don't think he would see, for example, that value of the meanie thing, or did he see it?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, God, he thought that was one of the strongest things we were doing.

Well, good.

He thought that was tremendous.

Well, look, you get back to your, get rid of your cold here.

Paul just came in, and he says to take off 10 minutes.

Okay.

I'll take it off, but I'll be right here if you want.

No, really, really, don't, because I'm going to be out of circulation for a couple days, and everybody can rest, okay?

Well, I appreciate your call.

Thank you.

Nixon phone call with Colson on State of the Union and Edmund Muskie

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on January 11, 1972

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