Conversation 019-004

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Hello?

Yes, sir, Mr. President.

Everything rather quiet today?

No, sir.

We got our fellows a little bit excited up on the hill over the Kennedy thing, and we got more than just a wire service story, although we got that out of Dole and Scott Ford-Aarons.

Scott was on CBS News tonight.

He just got the hell out of Kennedy.

And Roger Mudd came on afterwards and said, even Senator Mike Mansfield had to admit that what Kennedy did last night was going to be a threat to political harmony in the Senate this year.

He really kind of slapped them down a piece.

And you'd have been proud of your boys.

They really stood up.

I mean, the statements which I got them all here, and I won't

But they're really tough.

I mean, Jesus, they call Kennedy an adolescent.

That's good.

That's the thing to do.

Talk about how they got us into the war.

You're getting us to errands.

It's just, boy, you really cut them apart.

Dole, who's out of the buildings, talked to Bob today and told him about those two books.

It sounded to me, I could hear the sigh of relief on the other end of the phone.

I thought,

Just to tell you about it, I don't... You'll never believe it, but people don't care, and one guy doesn't, at least not the President.

I talked to him about it.

He said, that's the only guy I care about.

I said, oh, thank God.

He sent one out this afternoon and cut Kennedy's nuts off.

It was very good.

Good.

Well, that's a good day.

Well, I think we'll get a... As a matter of fact, we started a system up there with him today, Mr. President.

We had the... Park McGregor got them in, and we had the leadership meeting, and we had Noel Cook up with him, and...

uh we've got a whole system worked out in this session which i really think is i think maybe we can make this thing work and their spirits are great there wasn't one of them they seem to come back pretty up huh very up and uh very up and scott's particular ehrlichman had that impression he was up there for a part of it apparently and said he thought that they seemed to be very optimistic yes they're looking who's there when they were talking about the state of the union right coming program and they are they're apparently very upbeat noel cook

worked with them all afternoon and he said their feelings are good and they're kind of itching for the battle and they're all very bullish about you and where we stand and a lot of comments about muskie seeming to peter out of course mary mcgrory nailed it you know the very thing we were talking about this morning she made him the day well she really she pointed out that kennedy has now needled muskie by making muskie look bland and mild when did she do that tonight yes sir i didn't see her well

very interesting well the people around here read maryland of course and the people in town but it was a very he said that said that his that kennedy was so interesting and musk was so dull exactly and uh that's what's going to happen well his relief nothing is more irritating to a man in the throes of composition than to have a climber's rival deliver a polished and eloquent critique of what he is about to say and then goes on to point out that you know kennedy was digging into you hard but then said that

Teddy seemed to be telling Muskie that he really ought to get out there on the tough questions that he expects to be next.

Went on to talk about how bad he was in the press, Muskie was.

Saying that Teddy was bad in the press, and saying that Teddy makes him mad.

Will Muskie accept Teddy as head coach?

You know, it's the kind of thing that just squeezes those guys very hard.

So he talks about how edgy he was defensively in the press, and how the reporters had us scolded him.

And he says, Teddy showed how easy it was.

That's great.

I don't think it's a bad thing, Teddy.

I've got Elliot Richardson tomorrow putting out a speech that very strongly takes Teddy on as a civil rights man.

It really hits him very hard.

Well, he's the one to do that.

He knows our record is good.

Well, and he should defend that side of it.

We don't want to build the...

start that issue because it doesn't really help us but oh but let's at least get the truth out yeah and elliot loves to take teddy on you remember he took him on up in boston that time right really but you know the way to take him on is not on the record the rhetoric use rhetoric on him simply say that he's uh he's this is a unconscionable uh vicious lie you know the word in there vicious distortion of one of the most

brilliant records in the civil rights he did very well good read me some of it tonight so that was a good plus we uh the market was up again today pretty substantially it was up i noticed that i saw it i guess it was up five or six points on 21 million six points and yeah 21 million and four points yesterday so that's that's a healthy couple of course the housing start figures that were out today were spectacularly

They came out for all of last year, showing, for the first year in history, over 2 million.

And the biggest housing year ever, and the starts are continuing at the present rate, with declining mortgage interest rates.

Besser was predicting that the housing market would increase again next year.

So there really is some pretty good bullish stuff on the economy.

Apparently the street is reflecting that.

Well, we'll take a little knock next week with the budget and all that, but that's all right.

Well, I think we've set the stage fairly well for that, Mr. President.

It's been discounted.

Yeah.

The star had it yesterday or post this morning, but the $35 million figure is now pretty well sorted out, and there won't be any big shock to people.

And I'm not so sure that...

among some of our more conservative friends, the deficit is going to be a political problem.

Deficit is not a problem unless it creates inflation.

That's right.

And I think among the general public, the issue now is jobs.

The inflation issue is over with.

If they think we're creating an expansionary economy, I don't think that's going to be an issue.

You know, the musky people, I think, probably are looking for a whole card.

They can't allow...

There's negative stuff to get on for very long.

Of course, the press may drop it very soon.

They don't want to hurt him.

Well, the thing they can't do, Mr. President, is I think the Kennedy thing.

The Kennedy thing coming on the heels of the press was just ironic.

You and I were talking about this this morning, and it's the very thing where Brewery's picked up that he looks bad by comparison.

And the more Kennedy gets out front, the worse Musk he looks.

The more appealing Kennedy looks to the Democrats.

See, the...

He could make, by comparison, he could make Muskie look like a very dull, uninspiring, indecisive fellow.

He may be more of an asset to us.

I kind of like the idea of building him up and keeping him controversial and keeping him there.

That's right.

For that reason, attack him.

Oh, exactly.

The more we attack him.

I think Hubert's likely to see this opening.

He will see this?

He'll see the opening, Hubert will.

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Hubert is going to go for the juggler.

He always does.

Yeah, and McGrory makes that point here.

I mean, she's really done quite an interesting analysis.

Humphrey is threatening to knock a wheel off the Muskie bandwagon in Florida.

And Muskie, as he displayed aptly in a weekend television appearance, he's impressed.

He's not the happy warrior.

He's making that comparison, too.

It's just good take.

Bob Dole...

He was giving a major speech.

We're writing it for him on the whole DM coup, how we got into the war, mismanagement of the Democrats, and how they're now trying to make points.

That hit the war issue awfully hard.

Hang it right around the neck.

They're the war party.

Well, we're going to start some things going on that.

Larry's got a speech this weekend.

He's been doing that very well.

I think he can make some news of it.

And we'll try to do it with a big splash two or three times and see if we can't.

get them back on the defensive a little bit.

They've had their fun for the last few weeks as they've all been jumping into the campaign, and that's to be expected.

That's news when they do it, but we just may turn the tables on them on that one.

Right.

I'm not too unhappy seeing him get out on them.

I had one other little interesting tidbit.

I got the J.

Loves down today.

Oh, how's he doing?

Well, he's doing fine.

He says he's slowly...

He's taking it easy.

He's here now.

He's got his people in town, so he's back for a few days with us.

But I got Jay all exercised over the space shuttle, and told him that the AFL just couldn't take this line down.

It was like the SST, and it was jabs.

After all, Humphrey was right out front on it now.

They'd have to get in there and fight for the space shuttle.

Of course, I'd love that, because Muskie's on the wrong side of that one.

Let them line up behind it.

fight for.

Of course, Jay is all for it.

He's going to talk to me tomorrow about Smith and get their people exercise.

But that's the way to divide them.

You know, get them backing one Democrat and hailing another one.

Good, good.

Well, the main thing we want to do is to keep close to Fitz and Brennan.

Well, those two fellows were just in great shape.

Someday he can fill you in fully.

Not happy with the pay board, but otherwise, all right.

Well, Fitz is very unhappy with the pay board.

Tell him to stay off.

Oh, he won't do that.

Because he really stepped in this weekend and tried to help us with the stock strike.

He was marvelous.

He couldn't control Bridges.

where Bridges got reversed by his own executive.

But, no, no, Fitz will, anything that will help us politically, I think, is kind of Fitz, right down the line.

He'll stay with the Fable and his stuff, isn't he?

No, that's one place where Schultz and I have discussed that.

We're in total accord on that, too.

We've got to be very careful of that.

Fitz, at the moment, is very, very important.

I think this West Coast extract, Mr. President, I just sent you a memo tonight on this, is very important.

This is a little bit on a smaller scale like the Meany film.

Bridges is a natural enemy.

He's blocking the public interest here for his selfish goals.

So we've got to fight him.

And I just think we want to get way out on this one and let you be the

Well, I had Schultz in the day, and I said that we had to do that.

And he said, well, we couldn't do it until Monday.

I said, well, just do it.

We've got to be ready to hit it at the right time.

No, Friday, Friday.

Yes, I took him up to Friday.

I've been pushing him on that fast before a political backlash develops, lets us get out front.

Have you...

a little bit angry that, by God, the Congress hasn't acted on your legislation for two years, and they're not going to let these few people stand in the way of all the people of the West Coast and all the farmers.

And it's like you were saying Conley was talking about.

This is one of those cases where, yeah, you go after somebody like that, and you're on the side of the vast majority of people.

Exactly.

And strikes on top of you, you know, and they had a hell of a time.

They were on strike.

It really hurt the farmers.

This is a good one to go.

I've sent you some key passes.

Well, he agrees with me completely, and he also agrees on getting you out front on this one, because this is one of those, it's the meanie thing on a smaller scale, but it gives us one of those opportunities we want to seize.

But we'll keep our boys on the hill charged, and I think, well,

Well, I think we've got a point or two, and we've got Scott being briefed for Sunday.

He's going, and Bill's on the Today Show Friday, and he's going to hit it.

I've talked to the Vice President about getting him on one of the talk shows.

Goldwater's now back in town.

I've got a...

Well, I think we can get Barry on.

Yeah, he, especially with the conservatives now, he's got a cause now to go on and talk about.

We're coming up to hire him.

Oh, he's very happy over there.

But he's back, and I'll get him cranked into this.

I think between Bill and Scott and Barry, those guys are just great.

Hot guys.

We'll keep after them and see if we can't get a little momentum on our side.

Okay.

Thank you, sir.