Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 19 › Conversation 019-058

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Vietnam War and Nguyen Van Thieu

Monday, January 24, 1972 · 7:55 PM–7:58 PM ET · White House Telephone · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation019-058 on Tape 19StartMonday, January 24, 1972 at 7:55 PMEndMonday, January 24, 1972 at 7:58 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 019-058 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger coordinate the final revisions for an upcoming televised address regarding Vietnam policy. They agree to adjust the phrasing concerning South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu's election proposal to ensure it correctly reflects Thieu’s agency rather than appearing as a U.S. mandate. Additionally, they discuss concerns over potential ambiguities regarding Thieu’s possible resignation and decide to clarify the two-stage nature of the U.S. October 11 peace proposal to maintain transparency.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello, Mr. President.
I've talked to Connolly, and we'll send him a copy first thing in the morning.
And I've also shown a copy to Alex Johnson, so we can say we've run it half-way.
He was here drafting the cables to be sent out tomorrow.
The only problem we have is that Chu has come in.
He's seen the text and he agrees with everything, except when we talk about the election, we say, after consultation with President Chu, I now make the following proposal.
He feels that his election should be praised in a way which says something like, President Chu has informed me that he will be making the following proposal.
Good.
That's the way it should be.
And I don't see...
Absolutely.
Oh, sure.
That's the way it should be.
So with your approval, we will rephrase it that way.
Oh, of course it should be that way.
That's the way it should have been.
First instance, after all, it is his proposal.
He can't control it.
That's right.
That's right.
That's what I said.
And that makes the sound really, for our piece, make it even better.
Sure.
In fact, he has sent us a copy of his speech, and it's all out.
The only trouble is there's one ambiguity in there.
It almost sounds as if he's going to resign altogether.
And I've got a cable off that you are too bunker to make sure that we know what his intentions are so that we know it for our background.
Well, yeah, he mustn't.
He shouldn't do that.
But I don't really think...
I'd better put in the table our frank opinion is that he should not foreclose.
No.
No, no.
Of course.
Why should he foreclose?
Looks like he's maybe abandoning the ship.
No, sir.
I think he's indicated he will.
And we'll say, is he going to run?
Well, that's a decision you'll have to make at that time.
That's right.
Well, that's a very planetary change.
I think that's right.
Good.
I'll move that.
Fine.
Fine.
I think it's in good shape.
Did Alex like it in New York?
Oh, yes.
Well, he was a little stuck.
Was he?
Yeah.
Although Phil had told him that he had been informed, which is a good case, after we went through.
Of course.
But I'm fine.
Right.
Well, it's a little stunning.
A lot of people like it.
Our October 11th plan is so complicated that we have to put in one other sense in the speech, namely that there is a two-stage aspect to our October 11th proposal.
We've simplified it.
We took it out this afternoon.
But we don't want people to say it's a misleading speech.
So if it can stand that one sense, we can put it back in.
But then we can say we've been perfectly honest.
It's a two-stage thing.
that in order to speed the progress, we propose that it can be completed in two stages.
Right.
That's all we have to say, but I can explain what the two stages are.
Good.
Right.
All right.

NARA Description

On January 24, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 7:55 pm to 7:58 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 019-058 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 19-58

Date: January 24, 1972
Time: 7:55 pm - 7:58 pm
Location: White House Telephone

Henry A. Kissinger talked with the President.

     The President's forthcoming speech on Vietnam
          -Review
               -John B. Connally
               -U. Alexis Johnson
                      -State Department
                      -Cables
               -Nguyen Van Thieu
                      -Suggestion for phrasing
                            -Election
                                 -Proposal
                            -Doves

     Thieu
          -Forthcoming speech
               -Possible resignation
               -Kissinger's cable to Ellsworth F. Bunker
                     -Backgrounder
          -Prospects

                -Election

     The President's forthcoming speech on Vietnam
          -Johnson
               -Reaction
               -Previous conversation with William P. Rogers
          -Possible effect
          -October 11, 1971 proposal by the US
               -Complexity
                      -Two stages

Also recorded on January 25, 1972

  • 019-057 7:08 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John B. Connally talked on the telephone from 7:08 pm to 7:14 pm.
  • 655-001 9:18 AM · 58 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:18 am to 9:19 am.
  • 655-002 9:19 AM · 3 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:19 am and 9:53 am.
  • 655-003 9:55 AM · 2 hr 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Manolo Sanchez, Ronald L. Ziegler, Henry A. Kissinger, unknown person(s), Robert H. Finch, and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:55 am and 12:32 pm.
  • 316-001 12:32 PM · 1 hr 38 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Robert H. Finch, Manolo Sanchez, White House operator, Rose Mary Woods, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:32 pm to 2:15 pm.
  • 655-004 12:32 PM · 12 sec — United States Secret Service agents and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:32 pm and 8:19 pm.
  • 316-002 2:15 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:15 pm and 2:25 pm.
  • 316-003 2:15 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:15 pm and 2:25 pm.

All 29 conversations from January 25, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 019-058, January 25, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/019-058 (accessed September 26, 2026).