Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 19 › Conversation 019-077

Nixon, Kissinger & Rogers on Vietnam War and Foreign Policy

Tuesday, January 25, 1972 · 8:55 PM–10:03 PM ET · White House Telephone · 6 min

ParticipantsKissinger, Henry A.; Rogers, William P.; Nixon, Richard M. (President)Conversation019-077 on Tape 19StartTuesday, January 25, 1972 at 8:55 PMEndTuesday, January 25, 1972 at 10:03 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 019-077 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and Secretary of State William Rogers discuss positive domestic and international reactions to the President's recent speech on Vietnam, specifically noting favorable feedback from Mike Mansfield and the Prime Minister of the Netherlands. They shift to contingency planning regarding Vietnam, debating whether to initiate preemptive military strikes against North Vietnamese forces or wait for an attack. The participants agree to convene a high-level meeting involving military and intelligence leaders after Ambassador William Porter presents proposals in Paris to ensure the administration is prepared and protected from potential military blame.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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Hello, Bill.
I'm sitting here with the president.
I wanted to tell you first of all that I thought really your trip gave a terrific boost to it when you talked to the leader.
Is he there?
Yeah, he's there.
I mean, the FBI, he wants to talk to you to find out what you thought of him and where he's at.
Okay, I'll just run and save it.
Good, well, thank you.
Bill?
Hi, Mr. President.
Well, I just thought you should know that Henry and Scali and Ziegler, the guys that were there, thought you did a hell of a job in putting those sons of bitches, you know.
Well, you know.
You were great.
I'm here with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, you know.
Yeah, we're having, you and I, aren't you coming tomorrow, or are you not coming?
Well, I don't know, I'm having a lunch with him.
But Mike Mansfield is here, I thought you'd know what Mike said.
Well, Mike is a wonderful guy, you know, a decent man.
We all watched it together, and Mike said to me, I said, what do you think of it, Mike?
He said, well, it was a great step forward, and then he said, I don't think you can go any farther than you've gone.
Did he?
Yeah, and I think to me that's really what we were trying to prove.
That's great, Bill.
Now, if you can
frankly, you can do it better than, you know, they consider me to be a warmonger and probably Henry and a few other people, but by golly, they think that you really are, you know, trying to, you know, and I mean, they know you're tough, but they think that you're trying to do it.
And Mike really said that?
Yeah, that I don't think you can do any farther than you've gone.
To me, that was a very significant thing.
Yeah.
uh because uh you know he's very dumbish i know and to have him say that we couldn't go any farther i hope he says it publicly well whether he does he doesn't that's political
The people here, we all watched it before dinner, and everyone was very complimentary.
And the prime minister, another one, thought the delivery was great.
He has a television show every week, and he said the president was terrific.
You gave us very well.
Well, I don't know.
I think that you proved the point.
I don't know what else we can do.
What the hell else can we offer, Bill?
We've offered the poor guy's going to resign.
Jesus Christ, I'm not.
You know, we haven't said whether he'll run again, but that's another thing.
But the point is, he's going to resign a month before, caretaker government, and all the rest.
We've gone pretty far.
Well, I think it'll have a great effect, and I think, I don't know if the American people could expect it to do.
We've really offered everything we can.
I also think that if we have to take some
stronger action to meet this threat, we can go ahead and do it.
Yeah.
Incidentally, one thing I wanted to check with you, and we will have a meeting.
I just talked to Henry about this point, and I thought that I liked your judgment on it.
It seems to me that you flared more Helms, Isinger, and I as you sit down and
Have a little chat about what we do.
Now, on the offensive thing, my feeling at the moment is that we should not do anything until they strike.
Or do you think we should do something to stop the strike?
I don't know.
Well, I think we ought to listen to the military.
If we could take some action that would be effective, the trouble that I have in the military is
The bastards always come up with a five-day strike and shit.
They don't do anything.
When do you think we should have it?
Should we have it tomorrow or maybe wait until Thursday?
Well, maybe to see what the other side's reaction is.
Well, I think we ought to have it pretty soon, because reading that telegram from Abrams, it seems to me that we ought to be sure that what he decides is just the right thing, and that we have to take action ahead of time to stop it.
We should take it and go on and be very positive about it.
We're doing this to protect Americans.
We ought to say why we're doing it.
I mean, I'm all for taking action.
The only thing that gets me unhappy is when the military tells us all these things about these people.
And then they say, no, you know, take a hell of a lot of action if they don't succeed.
I don't want to drop one stinking bomb unless it's going to do some good.
That's right.
But on the other hand, if we could take some action that would prevent this from happening, then I'd be all for it.
Well, I think it's a good idea.
Well, listen, tomorrow is Wednesday.
I do the leaders tomorrow.
And then, you know, it might be a good idea, I think, if you drop in here this morning for the first 15 minutes.
It's just a good idea to get everybody steamed up.
I want it to be for us.
But in the meantime, let's withhold the time.
And then for this meeting, let's have the meeting.
maybe after Porter is presented it in Paris, right?
That's a good idea.
And then we all sit down and get a contingency plan.
But believe me, we're not going to bomb anybody unless it's going to do some good.
Well, I think what we ought to do is be sure that if something goes wrong, that the military can't blame us.
Oh, yes, like that damn story in the closest line.
Well, you should be very pleased with this broadcast.
You feel all right?
I know, it's great.
Okay, Bill.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On January 25, 1972, Henry A. Kissinger, William P. Rogers, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 019-077 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 19-77

Date: January 25, 1972
Time: Unknown between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm
Location: White House Telephone

Henry A. Kissinger talked with William P. Rogers.

     The President's recent speech on Vietnam
          -Rogers's meeting with Congressional leaders

The President talked with Rogers.

     Rogers’s meeting with Congressional leaders
         -Views of Kissinger, John A. Scali, Ronald L. Ziegler

     Rogers's location
         -The Prime Minister of the Netherlands

     The President's recent speech on Vietnam
          -Reaction
               -Michael J. Mansfield
                      -Conversation with Rogers
               -Perception of Rogers
               -Mansfield
               -The Prime Minister of the Netherlands
                      -View of the President’s delivery

Vietnam
     -Nguyen Van Thieu
          -Political future
     -Administration efforts
          -Public expectations
     -US offers
     -Possible US military action
          -The President's schedule
                -The President’s talk with Kissinger
                -Rogers, Melvin R. Laird, Thomas H. Moorer, Richard M. Helms,
                       Kissinger
          -Timing
                            -Possible North Vietnamese attack
          -Military advice
          -The President's schedule
          -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.’s telegram
          -Purpose
          -Military's projections

The President's schedule
     -Congressional leaders
          -Rogers
     -Vietnam meeting
          -Ambassador William J. Porter
                 -Paris
          -Contingency planning

Vietnam
     -Possible US military action
          -Administration culpability
     -Washington Post story, January 25, 1972
     -The President's previous speech

Also recorded on January 26, 1972

  • 019-064 8:55 PM · 15 sec — Henry A. Kissinger, President Richard M. Nixon, and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 9:21 pm.
  • 019-065 8:55 PM · 8 min — Henry A. Kissinger and Anatoliy F. Dobrynin talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm.
  • 019-066 8:55 PM · 9 sec — the White House operator and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm.
  • 019-067 8:55 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm.
  • 019-068 8:55 PM · 18 sec — the White House operator and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm.
  • 019-069 8:55 PM · 3 min — Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, President Richard M. Nixon, Michael M. Marshall, and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm.
  • 019-070 8:55 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm.
  • 019-071 8:55 PM · 2 min — Henry A. Kissinger and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:55 pm and 10:03 pm.

All 102 conversations from January 26, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 019-077, January 26, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/019-077 (accessed October 12, 2026).