Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 19 › Conversation 019-155
Nixon phone call with Colson on Vietnam War and Public Relations
Friday, January 28, 1972 · 5:49 PM–6:08 PM ET · White House Telephone · 18 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Charles Colson discussed public relations and political strategy following the President's recent Vietnam peace initiatives. They reviewed positive polling data, media management tactics, and the effectiveness of surrogates like Hugh Scott in countering Democratic criticism. Additionally, the pair assessed the political benefits of ongoing labor relations and discussed recent economic indicators, including a decline in insured unemployment claims and labor surplus areas, to frame a positive narrative for the administration.
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Hello.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
How's your morale today?
Well, mine's fine.
I think things are going quite well on the front of the peace initiatives.
Hugh Scott really cut up our Democratic friends today.
It's amazing.
We haven't heard much from the Democrats.
There's nothing on today's wires.
They said not a word yesterday.
It's a hot one.
well i'm delighted of course if they if they stay quiet because what it enables us to do is to is to bring over some doves uh brad morris and whalen and possibly matthias cooper are going to file up i'm trying to talk about making a statement but they want to do a resolution but it follows the exact lines of your proposals so if we can swing some doves over before
the Democratic big guns start, it's great.
But Scott today was marvelous.
He said that there are only three things to do.
You can settle this by the atomization, negotiation, or abject surrender.
Some critics of the administration want surrender.
Scott said, I don't think it's their own wish, but that's what they are pleading.
He really cut them off beautifully.
I think he's going to be more and more help to us this year, Mr. President.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
He's at peace with himself.
He wants your help.
He wants to be on the Nixon side when he has another leadership fight.
uh but i got your memorandum and we will keep the oh yes yes indeed well rogers uh we've got bill now pretty steamed up he has sent messages out around the world to all of his posts asking for foreign reactions because what he is initially getting out of the foreign press is very favorable
And what he wants to do then, or what we urge him to do, and I think he will do, is Monday or Tuesday to have a press conference and to say, I've received reports from all over the world.
Here's what I have learned from France.
Pompidou's comments today, for example.
Pompidou was putting that little thing to the tenry.
Very, very, very, because of course you've got him coming out and praising it.
And very...
but Rogers thinks we'll get some of this from around the world, from other places that's unexpected, Italy perhaps, and that if we do, he can make a hell of a good press conference out of that.
So we have things going.
Laird is on Meet the Press on Sunday, and he's going to be good.
He'll hit back if they talk about any of the critics speak tomorrow.
He'll hit back on it.
I pulled the Vice President back, really, from hitting it too hard tomorrow, the critics, because they aren't criticizing me that hard.
They're really not.
There's no point in drawing them out.
Don't draw them.
Exactly.
Frankly, what I'd like most to do is to have a few more days to work on some of the moderates, if we get them over and we show the national unity.
I think that'll do more to help
your popularity and support for the position than having them in a big battle.
Oh, well, the points are excellent.
We're all geared up.
The positive points are very good.
Excellent.
And the positive points that you make, Mr. President, are first grade, and I would add to it.
But there's a very interesting thing that some of our fellows did today, was go back and pick your statements out of 1968.
Because I don't, I'm sure you remember it, but you gave some speeches about the responsibility of a presidential candidate not to criticize his government for fear of undermining negotiations.
That's right.
I said that at the time of the bomb.
Yes, sir.
And we've dug them out, and they're just great.
And you've lined those up just in juxtaposition to what the Democrats said.
And God, it makes them look awful.
I mean, here they are berating our government.
We're putting together another... We got the Q&A out yesterday.
That's gone all over the place.
And I don't know what about it.
I'm sure you're happy.
I think it's quite good.
Well, it was good.
We got short, crisp questions and good, tight answers to it.
And then we have...
We're going to do a second one, which will be your statements in 68, the role of a presidential candidate in criticizing foreign policy initiatives.
It sure as hell is a stark contrast.
A stark contrast.
Good.
Okay.
I talked to Frank Stanton today, who was going to, I think, from what he said, use the Simliger poll results, which will be final as of tomorrow.
Simliger told me this morning that you're still running 52 to 53, even three days later.
Feelings are just as strong as each day's returns come in, about 600.
Another very significant figure is the close to 80% feel that you are doing all you can to end the war on Vietnam, which is an interesting question, which he will put out, and I think we'll get the stamp to use on CBS.
He was very thrilled.
Did he tell you about my call?
Oh, yes, he told me right away about it.
He said he was very thoughtful of you.
He very much appreciated it.
I said, I'm calling you, Frank, because you'd earlier in the week said, what could you do to help in connection with public support?
He said, someone has got this fascinating program.
You can either release it to the general press or give it to you exclusively.
I think getting it on CBS exclusive on the network is worth a hell of a lot more.
Before he even answered, he said, say, I want to tell you how much I appreciated the president's work.
So thoughtful of him to say that.
He loves his ego.
Sure.
Well, they deserve it.
They did do a good job.
On the deck.
Right.
With Dan Rather sometimes.
Oh, the hell with Dan.
Scali's been doing a good job with those fellows this week.
I didn't, Scali, he really is, he told me, and I didn't know this until after the fact, that he'd spent an hour with Brinkley before that happened.
Brinkley commentary, and he's been working, Marvin Kelb, who's been quite good, and Marder, some of the fellows that we can't normally get to.
I think John's been doing a damn good job of that.
The tone of the press, Mr. President, is very, very good.
I'm sure you've read it in the news somewhere, but the editorials that I've seen, I've heard about it.
Henry was concerned about people, about Dottie Rustin.
Oh, hell.
What the hell.
I said, that's not true.
Well, even Rustin only pissed on it halfway.
He had to kind of give you a couple of grudging points for it.
No, he's...
I don't read it.
I read it.
There's plenty there.
Well, let me know that I have to read it, and I'm sorry I do, but I... You should.
You have to.
You have to.
I hate to...
Hartson did a fine job today on the tax break.
He just kicked the hell out of the Congress.
They're dawdling on that, and your message went up a week ago, so he did.
He gave them quite a kick in the bottom.
I noticed the great interest today, as I met with the construction industry, that except for myself, the only other men in the room were wearing flags for the labor leaders.
By God, I love those guys.
They are fine.
Well, the man, they do, no question about it.
Well, I think your call yesterday was, the more I thought about it last night, was just a stroke of timing.
I called Lovestone today and told him that he just was thrilled.
He said, oh, wonderful.
He said, you know,
he's Irish, he'd never do it himself, but he said, that'll impress him.
And he said, oh, he did tell me, he said, he is mad as hell at Dean Miller and Barkin for putting that thing out in the air with LCI on the news that they were out to the feature.
And he said, you just can't tell, Chuck, what goes through that man's mind.
He said, he got awful mad at that.
He said it clearly.
Well, sure he did.
And he repudiated it publicly.
And he's never done that before.
He may just
It may just kick up his heels, right?
It's a long way, as you say, and we keep our eye on it.
Okay.
The market was good today.
Oh, did it hold?
Yes, well, it was up six and a half.
Oh, it went up?
Yes, sir.
You know, there's awful good news.
I don't know what in the hell the market does.
There isn't much to have it do up, you know, with the retail sales figures being lower than they thought.
Well, they were a little flat.
They're not down.
They're 60% up, but it's not that the market's over.
Yes, sir.
The leading indicators were quite a boost yesterday.
And the other thing, which is, I...
I take great comfort in it.
I don't know whether I haven't talked to her in sign about it, but I sure as hell think it's impressive.
And that is the huge decline in the insured unemployment claims way down in the month of December.
Well, it went down.
It's eventually got to be reflected in some, as Laura has said, Mr. President.
Well, or the other problem is that, you know, the insured unemployment claims are full-time workers.
You get teenagers coming in and out.
And if you knock down the full-time workers, it can be knocked down by a full percent.
If the teenagers go up by a percent, it's just been a total figure, it washes out.
Or they can be jimmying the figures.
I know full well how to do it, if they want to.
But the two things that came out today I think are most encouraging, or used to be today.
One is that, I think it was...
yeah but the component of leading indicators that was the biggest drop or the biggest improvement is the dropping of insured unemployment but the second thing is the decline in labor surplus areas particularly on the west coast three uh three areas were dropped from the labor labor surplus list
And Hodgson used that as a basis to just kick the Congress out.
You guys don't get moving.
You know, we've got an improving economic situation.
Six areas came off nationally, three in California, which is great.
So if that takes a healthy turn, I just think that'll be damn helpful to us.
Okay.
You'll be entered into the House.
Yes, I'll get it right away.
Thank you, sir.
NARA Description
On January 28, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 5:49 pm to 6:08 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 019-155 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 19-155
Date: January 28, 1972
Time: 5:49 pm - 6:08 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.
Vietnam
-The President's opponents
-Hugh Scott's statement
-Silence
-“Doves”
-Brad Morris, Charles W. Whalen, Jr., Charles McC. Mathias, John Sherman
Cooper
-Possible statement or resolution
-Scott's statement
-Vietnam War alternatives
-Vietnamization
-Negotiation
-Surrender
Scott
-Position in Congress
The President's memorandum
The President's January 25, 1972 speech on Vietnam
-William P. Rogers's messages to US posts abroad
-Reaction in foreign countries
-Reaction
-Rogers’s possible press conference
-Timing
-Georges J.R. Pompidou
-Henry A. Kissinger
-Italy
-Laird
-Forthcoming appearance on “Meet the Press”
-Agnew
-Colson’s view
-Moderates
-National unity
-Points made
-Positivity
-The President's statements in 1968 about candidate's responsibility
-Comments on Vietnam negotiations
-Editorial writers
-Question and answer [Q & A] session
-H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
-The President’s 1968 comments
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 1s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
**********************************************************************
Polls
-Albert E. Sindlinger
-Colson's conversation with Frank Stanton
-Conversation with Colson
-Vietnam
-Use of poll results by Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
Stanton
-Conversation with Colson
-The President's previous conversation with Stanton
-Sindlinger
-CBS
-Technical performance
Media relations
-Dan Rather
-John A. Scali's activities
-David Brinkley
-Marvin L. Kalb
-Murrey Marder
The press
-Tone
-News summary
-Kissinger's concerns
-James B. (“Scotty”) Reston, Joseph C. Kraft
-New York Times
-The President's use of the news summary
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 3m 3s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
**********************************************************************
West coast dock strike
-James D. Hodgson's statement on January 28, 1972 concerning Congress
Labor leaders
-American flag pins
-John H. (“Jack”) Lyons
-Identification with the President
-The President January 27, 1972 call to George Meany
-Colson's January 28, 1972 conversation with Jay Lovestone
-Colson's conversation with Lovestone
-Meany
-Reaction to article by Andrew J. Biemiller and Alexander E. Barkan
-1972 campaign
**********************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 2m ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
**********************************************************************
National economy
-Stock market
-Factors
-Retail sales figures, leading indicators
-Insured unemployment claims
-Colson's forthcoming conversation with Herbert Stein
-Teenage and full-time labor employment
-Labor surplus areas
-West Coast
-Hodgson
-Congress
Haldeman's poll transmittalAlso recorded on January 28, 1972
- 019-149 5:23 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods talked on the telephone from 5:23 pm to 5:25 pm.
- 019-150 5:25 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:25 pm and 5:26 pm.
- 019-151 5:26 PM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 5:26 pm to 5:30 pm.
- 019-152 5:30 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:30 pm and 5:33 pm.
- 019-153 5:33 PM · 16 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 5:33 pm to 5:44 pm.
- 019-154 5:49 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 5:49 pm.
- 019-156 6:13 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 6:13 pm.
- 019-157 6:13 PM · 26 sec — Manolo Sanchez, White House operator, and Ray Hair talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:13 pm and 11:35 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 019-155, January 28, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/019-155 (accessed October 12, 2026).