{"conversationCode":"019-176","tapeNumber":19,"conversationNumber":176,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-019-176","startDateTime":"1972-01-30T22:07:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-01-30T22:24:00.000Z","startDate":"30-Jan-1972","startTime":"5:07 PM","endDate":"30-Jan-1972","endTime":"5:24 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On January 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 5:07 pm to 5:24 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 019-176 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 1; Segment 2","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 19-176\n\nDate: January 30, 1972\nTime: 5:07 pm - 5:24 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n     Congressman Charles W. Whalen, Jr.\n         -Call from the President\n               -Brad Morris\n               -Vietnam negotiations\n         -Support for the President\n               -Economic policy\n         -Dayton, Ohio\n\n     The President's January 25, 1972 speech on Vietnam\n          -Henry A. Kissinger\n               -Reaction in New York City\n                      -Audience in theater\n          -Reaction\n               -Albert E. Sindlinger's poll\n                      -The President's November 3, 1969 speech\n                      -“Hawks”\n                      -The President’s efforts to end war\n               -Democrats\n\n                   -Edmund S. Muskie\n                   -Hubert H. Humphrey\n                   -John V. Lindsay\n                   -George S. McGovern\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 3m 53s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n    Campaign practices\n        -Possible write-ins in New Hampshire\n        -Lindsay\n\n**********************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 2m 27s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n\n**********************************************************************\n\n    Campaign practices\n        -Edmund S. Muskie\n              -Stance\n              -Possible actions\n        -Polls\n              -Issues\n                    -The President’s January 25, 1972 speech on Vietnam\n\n               -Dan Rather's interview with the President\n               -Thelma C. (“Pat’) Nixon's trip to Africa\n               -The President’s birthday\n               -Muskie\n                     -India-Pakistan War\n                           -John N. Anderson papers\n                     -Vietnam\n                           -Bombing\n               -Louis P. Harris's views\n                     -Vietnam\n                           -Bombing\n     -Smith Hempstone, Jr.’s views\n          -The President’s opponents\n\nVietnam\n     -New York Times\n          -Henry A. Kissinger's view\n     -Washington Post\n          -Marshall Green's letter\n     -Washington Star\n\nHempstone [?]\n\nGeorge P. Shultz\n    -”Face the Nation” appearance\n          -Melvin R. Laird\n          -Daniel L. Schorr\n\nNational economy\n     -Economic indicators\n           -Unemployment\n\nRay Conniff\n     -Conversation with the President, January 30, 1972\n          -Carol Feraci of Ray Coniff Singers\n               -Conduct at White House dinner, January 28, 2972\n                     -Timing of anti-Vietnam War protest\n                           -Effect\n\n     The President's schedule\n          -Shultz\n          -Laird","filename":["019-176.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"019-175","nextCode":"019-177","transcript":[{"start":1.43,"end":19.28,"text":"I called Wayland and he was very grateful."},{"start":19.3,"end":19.84,"text":"I told him I appreciate it."},{"start":47.67,"end":73.93,"text":"Well, Henry was happy, and I said, you know, to the theater, where he worked last night, and everybody was coming up to him and watching, and he was running all the time, and he said, well, it's not real."},{"start":73.95,"end":74.45,"text":"Of course, it's not real."},{"start":74.47,"end":75.27,"text":"He said that he'd send me some messages."},{"start":75.29,"end":75.63,"text":"Well, no, no, no."},{"start":81.99,"end":109.87,"text":"... ... ... ... ... ... ..."},{"start":113.26,"end":133.82,"text":"... ... ... ... ... ..."},{"start":150.61,"end":172.62,"text":"Stay close, stay close."},{"start":405.15,"end":421.66,"text":"Another one, another one, another one, another one, another one, another one, another one."},{"start":597,"end":597.88,"text":"."},{"start":597.9,"end":621.41,"text":"."},{"start":621.43,"end":621.45,"text":"."},{"start":621.47,"end":621.49,"text":"."},{"start":641.92,"end":670.31,"text":"Mm-hmm."},{"start":670.33,"end":670.95,"text":"Now let's go to the main point."},{"start":670.97,"end":671.61,"text":"And our point is that the person"},{"start":685.48,"end":712.48,"text":"All right."},{"start":712.5,"end":712.74,"text":"The bombing."},{"start":712.76,"end":713,"text":"The bombing."},{"start":713.02,"end":713.36,"text":"I really feel it."},{"start":713.38,"end":713.64,"text":"I understand."},{"start":716.64,"end":743.65,"text":"See that?"},{"start":764.15,"end":774.7,"text":"Henry was the first man in the world to have a post-baccalaureate."},{"start":849.77,"end":852.66,"text":"for the pilot's purpose."},{"start":896.08,"end":899.71,"text":"Of course, one of them is a doctor, totally honest, very honest."},{"start":926.65,"end":927.58,"text":"Uninsured, unemployed."},{"start":954.24,"end":955.35,"text":"Depends on how many people they add to the labor force."},{"start":955.97,"end":981.52,"text":"I talked to Ray Conniff today, and, you know, he's a great guy."},{"start":981.54,"end":982.38,"text":"He's been one of our supporters for years."},{"start":982.4,"end":982.9,"text":"He said, you know, right?"},{"start":983.37,"end":1005.01,"text":"I checked with my people."},{"start":1005.03,"end":1006.55,"text":"I said, it wouldn't have done any good this time because I reject this girl."},{"start":1006.57,"end":1007.45,"text":"She said she'd be proud and honored to come."},{"start":1007.47,"end":1007.99,"text":"She's with the substitute."},{"start":1008.01,"end":1009.25,"text":"But I thought she was a plan, but I didn't do any harm to her."},{"start":1009.27,"end":1009.93,"text":"I don't think he did it for them."},{"start":1009.95,"end":1011.25,"text":"I think if you were the kind to do it, he did it for all of them."},{"start":1011.27,"end":1012.14,"text":"And also, it was such a grossly bad manner."},{"start":1012.16,"end":1012.42,"text":"Well, it was."},{"start":1012.44,"end":1013.28,"text":"But I think if you were the kind to do it,"},{"start":1013.93,"end":1036.34,"text":"The sympathy that people have for the beating he's taken on Ford, which now I think everybody feels he's guilty about, and I think even the critics feel so, the honest ones."},{"start":1036.36,"end":1037.34,"text":"For her to do it now, it just makes people angry."},{"start":1037.36,"end":1037.96,"text":"I don't know what sympathy is."},{"start":1037.98,"end":1039.26,"text":"If she'd done it two weeks ago, that might have had some effect."},{"start":1039.28,"end":1040.8,"text":"But she picked the wrong time, and everybody else don't get that experience."},{"start":1042.11,"end":1055.13,"text":"Public will feel very sympathetic to put up with that."},{"start":1055.15,"end":1055.63,"text":"I'll get Shelton's call."},{"start":1055.65,"end":1055.85,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1055.87,"end":1056.81,"text":"No, I think you're going to be just as layered."},{"start":1056.83,"end":1057.23,"text":"I'll take that call."},{"start":1057.26,"end":1058.3,"text":"Yeah, I'm going to have a rerun in the morning."},{"start":1058.32,"end":1058.42,"text":"Good."},{"start":1058.44,"end":1058.54,"text":"Okay."},{"start":1058.56,"end":1058.76,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1058.78,"end":1059.28,"text":"Thank you, Mr. President."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles W. Colson discussed domestic political strategy, focusing on public reaction to Nixon’s recent Vietnam policy speech and the polling strength of Democratic presidential candidates. The two evaluated the impact of anti-war protests, specifically criticizing a recent demonstration by a member of the Ray Conniff Singers at a White House dinner as poorly timed and counterproductive. Additionally, they reviewed economic indicators and campaign logistics regarding potential primary challengers.","topics":["Vietnam War","1972 Presidential Campaign","Public Opinion","Protests","Economic Policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T01:51:09.513Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","1972-election","public-opinion","protests","economic-policy"],"audioDurationSec":1060,"audioFiles":[{"file":"019-176.mp3","bytes":25439920,"durationSec":1059.92,"bitrate":192013,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:24.938Z","transcriptGapSeconds":258,"transcriptGapShare":0.24,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/019-176.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/019-176","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/019/conversation-019-176","catalogNaId":417192671,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417192671","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}