{"conversationCode":"019-178","tapeNumber":19,"conversationNumber":178,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-019-178","startDateTime":"1972-01-30T22:26:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-01-30T22:29:00.000Z","startDate":"30-Jan-1972","startTime":"5:26 PM","endDate":"30-Jan-1972","endTime":"5:29 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Shultz, George P.;","description":"On January 30, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and George P. Shultz talked on the telephone from 5:26 pm to 5:29 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 019-178 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 19-178\n\nDate: January 30, 1972\nTime: 5:26 pm - 5:29 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with George P. Shultz.\n\n     Shultz's “Face the Nation” television appearance\n          -The President's previous conversation with Charles W. Colson\n                -Daniel L. Schorr\n          -Shultz's reaction\n\n     National economy\n          -Economic indicators\n                -Insured unemployment\n                -Retail sales figures\n          -Money supply\n                -The President's forthcoming note to Arthur F. Burns\n                -Burns's role\n          -Statistics\n                -Administration's reaction\n\n                    -Unemployment\n          -Marina von N. Whitman\n               -Appointment\n                    -Press coverage\n                         -Washington Post","filename":["019-178.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Shultz, George P."],"prevCode":"019-177","nextCode":"019-179","transcript":[{"start":0.32,"end":10.41,"text":"Oh, George, I didn't get a chance to see it, but Chuck Colson just called me and said you just did a hell of a job on that program."},{"start":10.43,"end":19.3,"text":"So I thought you should know that he thought particularly you cut up old Daniel Shore very well, which was good."},{"start":19.32,"end":19.62,"text":"Oh, sure, sure."},{"start":19.66,"end":23.45,"text":"Well, you should feel good about it."},{"start":24.01,"end":25.99,"text":"Did you enjoy the show or not?"},{"start":26.69,"end":28.74,"text":"That's right."},{"start":28.76,"end":35.71,"text":"You're used to bargaining."},{"start":35.73,"end":35.85,"text":"Right."},{"start":35.87,"end":42.88,"text":"But we really have, you know."},{"start":43.27,"end":46.17,"text":"You know, the significant thing about the leading indicators to me was the"},{"start":46.83,"end":68.61,"text":"figure of that drop in insured unemployment."},{"start":68.63,"end":71.23,"text":"I don't know whether that means anything, but the drop of 40,000 is the lowest level apparently since June of 70, so I don't know."},{"start":71.25,"end":72.73,"text":"That's bound to reflect itself eventually in the other figures, is it not?"},{"start":72.75,"end":73.05,"text":"Well, look, I'm"},{"start":73.42,"end":95.6,"text":"I'm doing some things in the Mike's environment that I trust will help, but I've got another little note to Arthur."},{"start":95.62,"end":97.2,"text":"He doesn't know anybody that anybody else knows about it, but it's very strong."},{"start":97.22,"end":97.98,"text":"It's only for whatever good that does."},{"start":98,"end":99.56,"text":"I'm not sure Arthur, though, I think he may not be able to control it as much."},{"start":99.58,"end":99.84,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":99.86,"end":100.22,"text":"What do you think?"},{"start":100.25,"end":101.31,"text":"Well, I thought that on that meeting, it wasn't fair."},{"start":101.33,"end":101.43,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":101.45,"end":101.77,"text":"Admitted that..."},{"start":101.79,"end":102.35,"text":"They're the best at fishing."},{"start":106.41,"end":126.27,"text":"Well, that just kept going on until the old theory that there's still a lot of steam in the boiler, you know, and it's bound to show up."},{"start":126.29,"end":126.72,"text":"And also, as we know,"},{"start":127.32,"end":154.28,"text":"We live and die too much by monthly figures."},{"start":154.3,"end":154.78,"text":"I'm convinced of that."},{"start":154.8,"end":155.26,"text":"Don't you think so?"},{"start":155.28,"end":155.46,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":155.48,"end":155.86,"text":"I thought that..."},{"start":156.06,"end":169.35,"text":"Marina Whitman got a good flight on first in the post."},{"start":169.38,"end":169.74,"text":"She's intelligent."},{"start":169.75,"end":170.1,"text":"She's articulate."},{"start":170.12,"end":170.38,"text":"She's pretty."},{"start":170.4,"end":172,"text":"All that, you know, she'll be a good... We now have three people on the council."},{"start":172.02,"end":182.89,"text":"All of them can, you know, speak out."},{"start":182.91,"end":183.01,"text":"Good."},{"start":183.03,"end":183.25,"text":"Well, okay."},{"start":183.27,"end":183.63,"text":"Get a little rest."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon calls George Shultz to commend his performance on 'Face the Nation,' particularly his confrontation with journalist Daniel Schorr. The two discuss positive economic trends, specifically a drop in insured unemployment, while expressing skepticism regarding the reliability of volatile monthly economic statistics. Nixon also mentions his plan to send a firm note to Federal Reserve Chairman Arthur Burns concerning the money supply and praises the recent appointment of Marina von N. Whitman to the Council of Economic Advisers.","topics":["Face the Nation","George Shultz","Economic indicators","Arthur Burns","Unemployment","Marina von N. Whitman","Council of Economic Advisers"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T01:51:20.535Z"},"topicSlugs":["face-the-nation","george-p-shultz","economic-indicators","arthur-f-burns","unemployment","marina-von-n-whitman","council-of-economic-advisers"],"audioDurationSec":186,"audioFiles":[{"file":"019-178.mp3","bytes":4458160,"durationSec":185.69,"bitrate":192065,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:24.938Z","transcriptGapSeconds":71,"transcriptGapShare":0.38,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/019-178.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/019-178","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/019/conversation-019-178","catalogNaId":417192675,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417192675","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}