{"conversationCode":"020-030","tapeNumber":20,"conversationNumber":30,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-020-030","startDateTime":"1972-02-02T20:03:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-02-02T20:06:00.000Z","startDate":"2-Feb-1972","startTime":"3:03 PM","endDate":"2-Feb-1972","endTime":"3:06 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\");","description":"On February 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 3:03 pm to 3:06 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 020-030 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 20-30\n\nDate: February 2, 1972\nTime: 3:03 pm - 3:06 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nH. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman talked with the President.\n\n[See Conversation No. 318-25]\n\n     Response to Edmund S. Muskie speech\n          -Henry A. Kissinger\n          -William P. Rogers\n          -Strategy\n                -The President’s memorandum to Haldeman\n                     -Patrick J. Buchanan\n\n                           -Talking points\n                -Vietnam\n                -Press coverage\n                -Rebuttal\n                      -Talking points\n                      -Hugh Scott\n                      -Rogers","filename":["020-030.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:59:49","tapeEnd":"01:02:02","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")"],"prevCode":"020-029","nextCode":"020-031","transcript":[{"start":1.47,"end":1.93,"text":"Hello."},{"start":2.15,"end":4.75,"text":"Mr. Hallman, Mr. President."},{"start":6.37,"end":6.69,"text":"Hello."},{"start":6.71,"end":13.42,"text":"Oh, I had talked to, I just finished talking with Henry on this muskie thing and so forth."},{"start":13.82,"end":19.69,"text":"I wondered if you were going to propose to Bill that he answer the thing, or if you had done so."},{"start":20.99,"end":30.88,"text":"Well, working on what we do on answers, I think we probably should, but the question is, you know, if he doesn't get any play, whether we make a mistake by building him up."},{"start":31.23,"end":33.92,"text":"I mean, by building up the attack."},{"start":33.94,"end":37.82,"text":"Well, I wonder if you aren't getting a ride."},{"start":37.86,"end":43.29,"text":"If you aren't missing an opportunity, however, to nail him with a... Maybe."},{"start":43.43,"end":49.53,"text":"I mean, I'm just dictating a little memorandum to you for a discussion with Buchanan so that he can write up the talking points."},{"start":50.4,"end":52.74,"text":"And I'll finish it within another 10 or 15 minutes."},{"start":53.34,"end":55.22,"text":"But the point is that here's..."},{"start":55.24,"end":57.22,"text":"I mean, he is wide open on the..."},{"start":57.49,"end":58.01,"text":"idea."},{"start":59.57,"end":63.22,"text":"First, those who got us into the war are sabotaging the President's efforts to get us out."},{"start":63.9,"end":64.48,"text":"That's musky."},{"start":66.3,"end":68.1,"text":"And so on down the line."},{"start":69,"end":79.84,"text":"But you think the best thing to do is just to wait and let it get a ride first and then attack?"},{"start":80.16,"end":81.98,"text":"Not on the low level."},{"start":82.73,"end":86.96,"text":"answer attack because whatever it rides with needs to ride with an answer."},{"start":87.52,"end":89.2,"text":"Yeah, that's the point, yeah."},{"start":89.22,"end":96.3,"text":"Well, I'll go ahead and dictate this answer and then send it over to you."},{"start":96.31,"end":96.42,"text":"Okay."},{"start":96.44,"end":101.44,"text":"Or dictate some talking points that maybe can be made and we'll see."},{"start":101.8,"end":102.5,"text":"All right."},{"start":102.72,"end":105.03,"text":"But who would be the low-level one that could do it?"},{"start":105.05,"end":106.77,"text":"Have you got any candidates?"},{"start":106.79,"end":107.43,"text":"Scott, maybe?"},{"start":108.69,"end":110.58,"text":"Let me check and see what we've got on the hill."},{"start":110.74,"end":111.38,"text":"It depends."},{"start":111.64,"end":112.22,"text":"If we can get"},{"start":113.18,"end":123.58,"text":"If something's gotten, if we've been trying to push that first, if something's moving on that and that's getting as much level as his thing is, it may be better to leave it there."},{"start":123.6,"end":123.92,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":124,"end":127.21,"text":"Maybe we want to escalate it and push it up with Bill."},{"start":127.67,"end":128.27,"text":"All right, fine."},{"start":128.29,"end":130.62,"text":"Well, let me just think my thoughts through first, okay?"},{"start":130.94,"end":131.64,"text":"Yes, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman discuss political strategy regarding a response to a recent speech by Senator Edmund Muskie. The pair debate whether to ignore the comments or launch a counter-attack to exploit Muskie's vulnerabilities on the Vietnam War. Nixon decides to draft a memorandum for Patrick Buchanan outlining specific talking points, while they consider potential surrogates, such as Hugh Scott or Secretary of State William Rogers, to deliver the rebuttal.","topics":["Edmund Muskie","Vietnam War","Political strategy","Media relations","Patrick Buchanan","Public relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T01:54:25.286Z"},"topicSlugs":["edmund-muskie","vietnam-war","political-strategy","media-relations","patrick-buchanan","public-relations"],"audioDurationSec":133,"audioFiles":[{"file":"020-030.mp3","bytes":3191117,"durationSec":132.89,"bitrate":192099,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:25.226Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/020-030.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/020-030","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/20/conversation-020-030","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}