Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 20 › Conversation 020-032

Nixon phone call with Ehrlichman on Value Added Tax and Legal Services

Wednesday, February 2, 1972 · 3:17 PM–3:25 PM ET · White House Telephone · 8 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation020-032 on Tape 20 (tape position 01:02:09–01:09:57)StartWednesday, February 2, 1972 at 3:17 PMEndWednesday, February 2, 1972 at 3:25 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 020-032 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discussed legislative strategies, including the potential veto of a legal services bill and negotiations regarding the Family Assistance Plan (HR 1). They reviewed the success of recent briefings with governors, leading to an action item for Ehrlichman to coordinate with Nelson Rockefeller regarding his upcoming testimony. The conversation also touched on the Justice Department’s suit against milk producers and personnel management within the Office of Economic Opportunity.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Yeah.
Yes, I have Mr. Ehrlichman.
Yeah.
A couple of points, John.
Yes, sir.
One on that.
I have the impression that we may be getting a little bit too far out in terms of...
of advocating it all right and uh so that so that it becomes an issue uh which they beat us over the head with uh when we may not do that you know i think i would try to get the boys to uh talk in more uh shall we say well there are a number of different suggestions but uh but none of them involve an increase in taxes all they really love is
changing the burden of taxes, you know, or something like that.
I don't know whether you feel that way, but I noticed the Times was playing it up pretty heavily this morning as being administration to advocate BAT and so forth and so on.
I think it's important to do that, and also that's important in relation with Connolly, too.
So do you agree with that?
Fine, sure, sure.
Because I think it's consistent with our strategy, too.
I think we're in a good position to be for modification of the property tax and reduction of the property tax and for some different system, but that our minds are open, we have made no decisions, and that in any event it's not a tax increase.
I'd hit that.
All right.
The other one is with regard to legal services.
Do I understand that that is now in proper shape or will be or... No, you're going to have to veto it.
Oh, really?
It's in bad shape again and they've lifted up with another damn child development thing.
Oh, boy.
And so the way it looks, you're going to have to do it again.
Yep.
It'll be the OEO bill again.
Right.
Well, that's all right with me.
I think it's a pretty good time to veto one of those.
Well...
doing much to clean it up because it went sour.
Yeah.
With regard to Elliott now, there's nothing I need to do there.
He's on salvo, is he?
Well, he is.
We may not go with a press conference tomorrow because we want to see if we can get a price for this among the conservatives.
Which would be like?
Like their support of your provisions.
In other words, we'd like to have you have a victory in the committee, but the committee come out with H.R.
1.
but with a test, and then let it go to the floor and let people hang amendments on it and so forth.
So if tomorrow's too soon to try and make those deals, why, we'll either postpone it or just not have a press conference.
I understand that.
In the meantime, I suppose we just don't worry about the immediate debate about what's happening and so forth.
There'll be all kinds.
the witnesses, you know.
We're fairly well positioned.
And we have Ziegler positioned as just hanging tough on H.R.
1.
Yeah, uh-huh.
As a negotiating position.
Right.
But that we're trying to find a solution.
That's it.
And that we're confident that there will be movement in the committee and so on and so forth.
Right.
Good.
Good, good.
Harry Dent thought the briefings went well, incidentally.
I talked to him.
I was very pleased with you and Schultz and Kissinger.
He said the governors had a chance to ask questions and give their own input and so forth.
Right.
So they were in good shape.
They seem to be in very, very good fettle.
Yeah.
I was very glad to...
that I picked the guys, as it turned out, who talked.
You know, it was almost, I did it, they were the natural ones to talk, but, you know, Reagan came through, Feinschutz style.
Rockefeller couldn't have been better, you know.
Sure.
Ran against you twice, and, you know, and all that.
That's great.
And now I'm for you.
And the other one is that, oh, could I ask you to do this?
He's going to testify tomorrow.
I want you to, if you can, take the time
call him on the phone and tell him what's in the works here.
All right.
It's possible we want him to stand tight.
All right.
I don't know.
What do you think?
And say that he's, the president's position is that the main thing is to get action.
Yep.
Yep.
All right.
I'll phone him.
You phone him and tell him.
All right.
But let him in on the game.
All right.
Got these guys over a barrel now and that we're going to get something out of it and that if we get anything out of it, why, New York will get its share.
All right.
Right.
I think it's a good idea because he did raise it with me last night.
And incidentally, another good point that came out last night, which I thought was the fact that Milliken said, look, don't write off Michigan, which gave me a chance to sort of make the 50-state point that it's wrong to write off any section of the country and to take any for granted.
You and I know the politics.
We're going to concentrate on where we're going to win.
But don't you think it is good to play that line with Massachusetts, Michigan?
Very interesting.
You see Milliken and Sargent coming around as enthusiastic as they are.
They come up to us on the sly and say, now, listen, we really want to be a part of this, and we're really for the president and all this kind of thing.
good so it's uh that's i think a very heartening sign yeah those guys would cut and run if there was any trouble you give your rest to uh thought to this terribly difficult problem i don't know what the hell the answer is but one other thing uh were you uh did you know what in the hell uh the the justice department is bringing this suit against the milk producers for yes i called the attorney general about that this morning
He says, well, there were three choices and all of them bad.
One was what they finally decided to do.
Two was to file criminal charges against the officers of the milk producers.
Three was to do nothing.
And then there was going to be a congressional hearing.
And John said that...
This gets it in the courts and it'll screw around for a while.
John said he had talked this over with the milk producers.
He didn't understand why we were all surprised.
This had been kicking around for a long time, and I said, well, you know, none of us had heard anything about it.
Right.
Okay, just so he's talked it over with him.
So he says he has.
I hope he has.
Yeah.
But anyway, you might want to just raise it with him.
Yeah, if I see him, I will.
If you see him.
Yeah.
And get into it.
Now, on the vice president's meeting on legal services... Mm-hmm.
That came up because of contacts with Cahill, who just raised hell with the vice president about this legal services outfit.
So the vice president called...
The vice president's on Cahill's side this time.
Oh, yeah, very much so.
And the vice president called this meeting, and he sort of summoned in everybody from all over New Jersey.
And we just heard about it by chance.
I sent a guide.
Well, then basically it's not his fault, then.
Well, he's sort of responding to Cahill's pressure on it.
The crazy legal services guy deserves to be fired for the way he treated the vice president, regardless.
But we can't fire him now.
He's already quit.
He's already quit, but Ken Cole's got it worked out so he'll leave by Friday.
And that will, I think, signal the bureaucracy that his departure was hastier than he had planned.
Well, let's have him leave the day.
Well, yeah, but I think that would just bring the liberals down on the vice president.
All right.
I get it.
I get it.
Okay.
I get your point.
You're exactly right.
All right.
Good luck.
A lot of snow up there, I'll bet.
Oh, a lot of snow, I should say.
The boys have been working all morning.
Very comfortable, isn't it?
Delightful.
Delightful place.
Well, enjoy your dinner.
Thank you.

NARA Description

On February 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman talked on the telephone from 3:17 pm to 3:25 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 020-032 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 20-32

Date: February 2, 1972
Time: 3:17 pm - 3:25 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with John D. Ehrlichman.

[See Conversation No. 318-32]

     Value added tax [VAT]
          -Advocacy
          -Use as an issue
          -Tax increase
               -Shift in tax burden

          -New York Times story
          -John B. Connally
     -Property tax modification and reduction
          -Administration line

Legal services bill
     -Veto prospects
     -Child development aspect of bill
     -Office of Economic Opportunity [OEO]
     -Administration efforts

[Family Assistance Plan]
     -Elliot L. Richardson
           -Press conference
           -Congressional dealing
                 -Concessions
                      -Conservatives
                           -House Resolution [HR] 1
     -HR 1
           -Ronald L. Ziegler
           -Congress

Governors' meeting
    -Harry S. Dent view of briefings
          -Ehrlichman, George P. Shultz, Henry A. Kissinger
          -Governors
          -Speakers
                -Ronald W. Reagan
                -Nelson A. Rockefeller
    -Ehrlichman call to Rockefeller
          -Rockefeller’s forthcoming testifying
                -The President’s position
                -Congress
                -Benefits to New York
    -William G. Milliken
          -Michigan
          -Administration line
                -Massachusetts, Michigan
                     -Francis W. Sargent
          -Support from politicians

Justice Department suit against milk producers

          -Ehrlichman call to John N. Mitchell
                -Options
                     -Criminal charges
                     -No action
                     -Congressional hearing
                -Mitchell
                     -Conversations with mild producers
                -Length of investigation

     Legal services bill
          -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew meeting
                -Reason
                      -William T. Cahill contacts
                           -Agnew’s view
                           -New Jersey
                           -Cahill pressure
                -Legal services representative
                      -Treatment of Vice President
                      -Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.
                      -Resignation
                      -Signal to bureaucracy

     Weather

Also recorded on February 2, 1972

  • 020-031 3:06 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:06 pm and 3:17 pm.
  • 318-026 3:06 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:06 pm and 3:17 pm.
  • 318-027 3:06 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:06 pm and 3:17 pm.
  • 318-028 3:06 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:06 pm and 3:17 pm.
  • 318-032 3:17 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:17 pm to 3:25 pm.
  • 020-033 3:25 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:25 pm and 3:30 pm.
  • 318-033 3:25 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Hobart D. Lewis met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:25 pm and 3:30 pm.
  • 318-034 3:25 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:25 pm and 3:30 pm.

All 71 conversations from February 2, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 020-032, February 2, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/020-032 (accessed October 12, 2026).