Conversation 020-089

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Hello.

Hi Bob.

On that talk with Bill, there were several points there that it seems to me that Flanagan really should work out and then just submit recommendations.

I shouldn't be talking to him.

I don't want you to go stir Henry all up about this either.

Let Pete work out those things.

Like, for example, let

There you have to check with Henry.

But did he raise the Hillebrand thing before?

Has it ever been raised with Henry or anybody or Pete or what?

It has apparently been raised with Henry.

But it's been put off on the basis that

that we were going for a non-career appointee, which I thought was a good idea.

Well, I well understand that, but you understand too that you can't keep playing around and waiting four or five months.

You've got to get an ambassador there.

And my view is that I think probably on this one.

But since it's gone this far, I don't think Gillibrand will do anything.

You can confuse it.

Particularly if Rush is seeking.

He says Rush is for it.

I don't know if that's true or not, but that would have a great, great, great weight with me.

You get Flanagan together with Henry tomorrow and work that out.

Let's get the German ambassadors worked out right away.

And in the future, I think almost, there should be a Flanagan-Chapley consultation.

He does.

He has.

But you see, they shouldn't come up to me in that sort of half-assed way.

I don't know what to say about that.

The ones that were supposed to come up were all set, and he was just going to go through them.

Was I fine with what he agreed to with the Crable, wouldn't you think?

been in short spots for a long time.

And Australia, where he turned down Lloyd Miller.

And so we were going to give up on that one.

And apparently everybody's agreed to leave John Lodge in Argentina.

Leave him there?

Yeah.

Good.

Let's get this out of our air.

I don't give a damn who the ambassadors are for the most part.

And with regard to the, I think with regard to the fellow with

And then the Val Peters, they were going to replace him.

And we thought there was to give that to a career.

So that we could give him one more career guy.

Give him a career guy.

I agree.

Give him a career guy.

But getting back to the...

The...

german has to be done the iranian thing they uh that they want a career guy there i think henry was pushing sullivan he was at one point i think they i think both agreed not to pursue that one now at least that's what i was in i was told though that they thought that that would be a good move for farland well it may be except that we do need a hell of a good man in pakistan right now

It's a terribly delicate situation.

It's a terribly delicate situation, and I'm inclined to think that Barlow, as much as he wants to leave, deserves to leave, he's just got to be promised to leave at a later time, but he's got to stay there now.

On the others, in fact, Chief Virgil, I couldn't care less if Dale has that job.

Naturally, it can't be ruined, but maybe the idea of making this guy Smoter, what's his name, or Smoker, you know, he never is very impressive to me.

He's got some

He's not so good, but we can't lose anything by leaving him acting for a while.

Just make him act.

Just don't fill the post for a while.

And I don't think we have to run around.

Does everybody feel that it would mean a lot to Jim Reynolds to get back here right now?

That's for sure.

My point is, if he comes back now, you've got to realize he'd be coming back to just leaving from the table.

There are no big state visits required.

We don't have any coming.

Right?

From Mexico.

All right.

I don't intend to take them as cheap protocol business, let's understand.

I'm not going to go through this.

Like we've done with Mosbacher, taking every place, he goes out, parts are out.

We're not going to do it that way anymore.

Just have that done by an advance man.

It's much better, don't you think so?

Sure it is.

A cheap protocol doesn't know how to handle it.

That's right, unless you get a guy that, you know, is a more advanced man type guy.

Well, a CODIS could do it all right.

But in Moscow, I once woke up in New York just going to go, I don't want the acting guy to feel he's got to go over there and screw up the arrangements, you know.

Because then just one more guy you've got to clear with, and one more guy you have to do this and that.

Well, that's basically it.

They are really more of a problem than they are at all.

They are.

And we have to do it in Moscow, because we have to do it in Moscow.

As a matter of fact, I'm inclined to say this to Bill, that we downgrade the damn office later.

You know what I mean?

So that we don't have that situation where you have to...

We allow them to keep protocols and say, you know, if you have a lousy job, you need to drop them to people, carry them around the country.

But if we go abroad, you just can't have a situation where you have to sit in a team.

Well, that's the key, really.

You should act in a different kind of capacity.

Right.

So you get a man, basically, Bob, that will be willing to do that and not put somebody who's going to come in there and forget it.

His prestige requires that he's

You see, there's this problem to it.

You're escorting the president.

You've got to have four in the car rather than two.

You're not taking a couple out of them.

It's just a pain in the neck.

By the way, work that out.

On the other thing, this is a trip.

I can't quite tell what one is going on.

But the stopping at NATO, though, I just don't see how that...

I don't see how you could do that after visiting Moscow.

I had a hell of a lot of other stuff in Iran.

So I don't want to, but don't let Henry raise this with Bill.

You raise it with Henry.

You understand?

All right, look.

What about the possibility?

Don't say that Bill recommends it, and he'll get out and squeal.

I'll just phrase it on the basis of the calendar.

Yeah, the calendar is that we're going to be there, and what about stopping in NATO on the way back?

The second point is we don't stop there.

You could have an excuse for not stopping there if we went to Iran on the way back, which I'd be willing to do.

Well, yeah, going to Iran wouldn't undercut the Russian thing the way going to NATO would.

Going to NATO sticks it to the Russians, isn't it?

And Bill's people are just putting him on here a little bit.

Well, it undercuts the ride that you get out of the Russian trip.

It does it another way, too, though, that's more fundamental.

Sure it does.

Stopping those jackasses in NATO, you know, when they all got their party around.

If you go to Iran, you could go there for a couple of days, just make it two days, you know, a usual two-day visit.

And on home.

That would make sense to me, but you could point it up to him.

What's the problem there?

let's try to get these things worked out so that i don't have to i can't you know it's the old story bill like everybody else he should never raise scheduling with me i'm the least qualified person to know what the hell the schedule should be you just wanted to come in and talk right well this is good good to talk about these things but now you sort of work it out yep and don't but don't don't send a memo to henry

and him carry it over to Bill, and it'll just break China again.

You handle it.

If I schedule it, don't have Henry handle the schedule.

Don't ever let him have a schedule again, because you're going to have one hell of a time.

But if you handle the schedule, Bill will understand it.

And you should anyway, don't you agree?

Sure.

Say, all right, now, what is the score?

What would be the best thing to do?

Do you want to do this, that, or anything?

And if he says, no, it can't be done for this reason, we won't do it.

But if it can be done, then you work out the schedule so you can use it.

You say, Bill, I'll do what he's got to do.

Okay?

I think that's the best thing to do.

I think that's the deal with him.

At least with Bill, we've got no problem with where he goes, because he's not going to go to any place where, like his going to any accident, he's out of his damn mind.

You realize he could get damn near mobbed in either place.

Yep.

This is the sake of our people.

Okay?

terrible that's a rat i have a whole bunch of things you know that is that is an utter rat's nest no american can go i mean sure pakistan is a problem in india so how many americans are going to give one damn that it is a problem you know if we do the china russia thing right so what can you do about it except make it worse what you do is to advertise it as a problem

Advertising is a problem.

But we'll do it with a very low key.

Well, I think it's the least we can do.

I'm inclined to think that in the future it's a pretty good rule not to try to take capital offers on these barriers.

It's just too damn hard.

Yes, it is.

Because you have to talk.

Well, you have to be the host then and worry about his number calling.

And that's not the purpose here.

And I think, too, but you know, the other thing is, if you do it with him, the others are jealous, too.

Why the hell can't they go?

So we've done it now, and that's that.

In fact, that was long ago.

But I think your thought is to, and I think we'll just be hard-nosed as hell on any further trips.

There's no cabin much as well.

I mean, in the United States, I don't think that we should have them anyplace, Bob.

Just, you know, when I take the Knox, I don't want any more cabinage in the country anyway at this point, but when I go to this state or that state or the other.

They go in a different plane.

Don't you agree?

I sure do.

And we go, we leave.

The way you do it, you've got to remember that you've got to conserve my energy at this time.

And frankly, hell, on a different plane, they're going to be more comfortable anyway if you can work for their ego.

But we've done enough for their egos, haven't we?

I think we put them on different planes, and we've got beautiful quarters.

That's how you build them up on that.

That's right.

I really think that's true.

I don't think we have to halt.

But I think what your point is well taken.

just don't take anybody have an absolute ironclad rule but you can never break it you can't break it for any congressman or any senator ever don't you agree well that's that's the only way you can really the only problem that i see is coming back sometimes then i think you could break it for a congressman but then i think you could let a congressman come back for example give him a ride let's just say look get a ride

Well, we'll even, let's not even commit to that.

The more we can avoid that, the better if we start out.

That's right, because we've all got a hell of a lot of work to do.

You know, we're all too busy to talk to these people.

Okay, if you'll get to Pete.

Sure will.

And if you get to Henry with it.

Put it as your idea on the schedule.

Right.

Roger C. Preston said I'm going to play it.

But I do, I don't know, I don't know what's wrong.