Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 21 › Conversation 021-128
Nixon phone call with Colson on ITT case and Pay Board
Tuesday, March 21, 1972 · 11:19 PM–11:45 PM ET · White House Telephone
AI Summary
President Nixon and Charles Colson discussed a variety of political and administrative issues, including the status of Democratic-led ITT hearings and the potential resignation of George Meany from the Pay Board. The President emphasized his intent to take a firm stance against labor leaders if they chose to leave the board, prioritizing national interest over special interests. Additionally, the pair reviewed the media reception of recent White House initiatives, specifically praising the President’s aggressive rhetoric regarding inter-agency competition in drug control efforts.
- ITT case
- Pay Board
- George Meany
- Labor relations
- Drug Abuse Office and Treatment Act
- Public opinion polls
Audio
Download MP3 (part 1) · 111.8 MB ·Download MP3 (part 2) · 71.1 MB
This conversation has not yet been cut into its own clip, so the player above contains the full tape segment shared with neighbouring conversations. It begins about 04:28:52 into the tape and ends around 04:54:26.
Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
2:32:20Surviving well, as a matter of fact.
2:32:21I think we're going to have a good week this week.
2:32:24Haven't got any more on the typewriter thing.
2:32:27No, Erlichman, I think, broke up the date as much as we had.
2:32:31Yeah, yeah.
2:32:32Things have turned a little bit, Mr. President.
2:32:35The press, as you may have noticed, is...
2:32:38A little more jumpy?
2:32:41What did he tell them?
2:33:02Until the Democrats make their case again, we're going to stop dealing with the president.
2:33:10Good.
2:33:10Democrats decided to call off any hearings.
2:33:13They're going out for three days of hearings, yeah.
2:33:15Monday, Monday and Tuesday.
2:33:16All right.
2:33:18From their standpoint, I think it's kind of stupid.
2:33:19I think they're going out there for too long.
2:33:49I know, because they have to have some reason to get the document, I know.
2:33:55Did they work that out?
2:33:57The Bureau is?
2:34:13You know, I would certainly think, though, that the East...
2:34:17I know, I know, they didn't.
2:34:19I'm a bastard.
2:34:44Just, it's a blackout.
2:34:46For sure.
2:34:46His permission, that's the most arrogant thing I ever heard of.
2:34:55Right, right.
2:35:14I thought you'd be interested to know that Sindlinger came, and his wife's parents were born in Turkey, so that was the best thing we could have done.
2:35:26He was just tickled to death.
2:35:27He's an interesting fellow.
2:35:28Did you get to talk to him?
2:35:29No, I couldn't, because, you know, I just had a hundred people.
2:35:32I just saw him in the line.
2:35:33But I mentioned the fact that he talked to you, and he was a great pollster, and I built him up.
2:35:37You know what I mean?
2:35:37I gave him half a minute.
2:35:39But I know he was terribly pleased.
2:35:41I knew his wife was from the Middle East.
2:35:43I didn't know which country.
2:35:44Well, that's right.
2:35:46He's actually Armenian, but lived in Turkey.
2:35:50Right.
2:35:50Right.
2:35:52Right.
2:39:16Of course, I suppose that tomorrow we'll see Manny and his crowd jumping off the wage bar, huh?
2:39:21Well, Fitzsimmons is not going to the meeting right now, and he will stay on the board no matter what.
2:39:31In fact, he's staying in Florida.
2:39:34Right.
2:39:35He's defying me.
2:39:37Good.
2:39:39Woodcock, he thinks, well, of course, because Fitzsimmons got him.
2:39:59But I think we've got to take them on if they jump ship.
2:40:03The line that George had of
2:40:05Well, just continue and leave a light in the window.
2:40:08Bullshit.
2:40:09They're not going to kick us.
2:40:10I'm going to take them on for thumbing their nose at the government.
2:40:13This is it for meaning.
2:40:15Huh?
2:40:15Well, his excuse will not be, in my opinion, will not be the...
2:40:31I sent George over to see him today.
2:40:56We've done our part, and boy, if he goes, believe me,
2:41:00He thought he got a rip in Miami.
2:41:01Wait till I take him on real hard.
2:41:12I can praise Woodcock, Simmons, and them, this little group of willful men, for their special interest above the national interest.
2:41:35Incidentally, I noticed an interesting thing from Stein, that the Michigan opinion survey is now beginning to get more in tune with Senlinger.
2:41:50Isn't that interesting?
2:41:51Yes, sir.
2:41:52So maybe old Sindlinger hadn't been wrong after all.
2:41:54Remember, we thought maybe he was crazy.
2:41:56He's been right on in the market.
2:41:59He's pulled every turn on the market.
2:42:03Does he still show a high consumer base?
2:42:05Yeah, he's up to, well, right now he's up to 137, 136 and a half, which is the highest he has been in years on the market.
2:42:23I used to get it.
2:42:26I'd never get it again.
2:42:27You get it in your eyes, too?
2:42:30Oh, it's horrible, horrible.
2:42:45Don't bother with it.
2:42:47We'll just outgrow it.
2:42:48Take your 10 or 15.
2:45:46What in the hell has happened to our investigation of those that contributed to the Miami Convention?
2:45:51Did that come of abort like everything else I ordered?
2:45:55Well, that came of abort largely because what they did in Miami was spread it so widely.
2:46:00We do have your picture, but at the moment it doesn't prove it.
2:46:06The biggest single attack that we have.
2:46:10You know, the really good thing that that fellow, Janine, went on and said,
2:46:39By God, it was a good business deal.
2:46:40He's exactly right.
2:46:42With three hotels, you know, there are not many hotels in the same area.
2:46:46Three hotels, this makes it for them.
2:46:48Yeah.
2:47:07I thought our drug thing got more play than I realized it would.
2:47:09It was beautiful, of course, because yesterday broke the day.
2:47:14Today they probably gave a little too much.
2:47:16They did.
2:47:17They played it again tonight.
2:47:19Well, I mean, that's in Turkey, which is a big industry.
2:47:23They play both days together.
2:47:27I think it's a good thing.
2:47:28You're kind of saying it's a good thing.
2:47:32It's a good thing.
2:47:37Did they get that?
2:47:38I put, you know, they prepared some comments for me, but it was so damn bland, you know, about compassion for the addicts, or about puke.
2:47:47And I said, oh no.
2:47:49So I just said, I said, your job is to knock the heads together of the 13 agencies.
2:47:54And I said, all of it is competing between agencies as a credit.
2:47:59An empire building is going to stop, and either you knock the heads together, and if they aren't knocked together, heads are going to roll.
2:48:04Did that get over in television?
2:48:06Yes, it did.
2:48:06Don't you think that's a good line?
2:48:07It's a marvelous line.
2:48:08My man, he had this thing, and he came back, and he said it's real.
2:48:13He said, my God, he said that was the real punchline.
2:48:17And they carried it, and that was the one I watched.
2:48:21And I heard that it was an old version, although I didn't know.
2:48:34Well, I think you make that point right there.
2:57:49Ja.
2:57:50Mr. President, Mr. Butterfield?
2:57:51Ja.
NARA Description
On March 21, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 11:19 pm to 11:45 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 021-128 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 21-128
Date: March 21, 1972
Time: 11:19 pm - 11:45 pm
Location: White House Telephone
The President talked with Charles W. Colson.
International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
-Typewriter
-John D. Ehrlichman
-Press
-Congress
-Hugh Scott briefing
-Policy committee Republican senators
-Hearings
-Democrats
-Typewriter
-Independent analysis
-James O. Eastland
-Jack N. Anderson [?]
-Press
-Blackout
-Letter
-Scott
-Networks
-Beard memorandum
State Dinner for Nihat Erim
-Mrs. and Mrs. Albert E. Sindlinger
-Mrs. Sindlinger
-Parents
-Turkey
-Pollster
-Armenia
******************************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 3m 21s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
******************************************************************************
George Meany possible resignation from the Pay Board
-Frank Fitzsimmons
-Leonard Woodcock
-Fitzsimmons’s talk to Colson
-Meany
-I[lworth W[Ilbur] Abel
-Floyd E. Smith
-Colson’s talk with George P. Shultz
-The President’s view
-Interest rates
-Consumer Price Index [CPI]
-Labor
-Meany’s previous meeting with Shultz
-Previous American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations [AFL-
CIO] convention
-Miami
-Woodcock
-Fitzsimmons
-Wage Board
-Polls
-Herbert Stein
-Michigan opinion survey
-Sindlinger
-CPI
Colson’s health
******************************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 2m 47s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
******************************************************************************
Miami convention
-White House investigation
-Contributions
-Corporations
ITT case
-Harold S. Geneen
-Statement
-San Diego
-Beard memorandum
Drug Abuse Office and Treatment Act of 1972 signing
-Media coverage
-Turkey
-The President’s previous comments
-Addicts
-Government agencies
-Network coverage
-Public opinion
-Polls on drugs
-George C. Wallace
-Florida
******************************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 7m 31s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
******************************************************************************Also recorded on March 22, 1972
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- 324-014 10:05 AM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:05 am and 11:01 am.
- 324-015 10:05 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and George H. W. Bush met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:05 am and 11:01 am.
- 324-017 10:05 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:05 am and 11:01 am.
- 324-018 10:05 AM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:05 am and 11:01 am.
- 324-019 10:05 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:05 am and 11:01 am.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 021-128, March 22, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/021-128 (accessed October 3, 2026).