Conversation 021-131

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Anything further on the wage thing?

I understand George says that he thinks Meany is going to leave.

Well, it looks that way.

The reports coming out of the AFL-CIO, although they're not from Meany himself, indicate that Meany, Abel, and Smith will go out.

I gather Meany's quandary, however, from my intelligence plus what I'm reading, is that he can't get Fitzsimmons and Woodcock to go with him.

And he doesn't want to make it, if he makes it an AFL-CIO walkout, of course, he puts all the onus right on George Meany personally.

He's going to repeat Val Harbor if he does that.

Yeah.

And it fits and...

It isn't all bad for us.

Oh, Mr. President, I think there are a lot of advantages to it, because public confidence right now in the wage and price control mechanism, we shouldn't kid ourselves, is low as hell.

Low.

I know our guys around here don't like to recognize that, but it is very, very bad.

And if it gives us an opportunity to hang it on Meany, A, and B, set up a mechanism that appears to have tight controls and isn't bickering, I mean, it isn't tripartite, you know, it's a government board.

Yeah.

And you simply say, by God, we're going to crack down and do whatever is necessary.

I think the public would cheer like hell.

I can't believe Meany's going to be this stupid.

The thing that has political ramifications to him that's very serious is if he can't get Woodcock and Fitzsimmons to go with him, he's going to split the labor movement.

You're keeping in touch with Fitzsimmons, to be sure.

I'm sure he doesn't go with him.

I talked to him yesterday, and he gave me a flat out...

I don't think Fitz would do that to us.

I'm sure he's under a hell of a lot of pressure.

He didn't show up.

He didn't go to the meeting.

He boycotted the meeting, so he can't very well... Where is the meeting taking place?

At the AFL-CIO.

Right here?

Yes, sir.

But the fact that Fitz wasn't even there, and Woodcock wasn't there, Woodcock also boycotted it, tells me that Meany's got himself in a bind.

Well, I think that Meany's...

You know, being an old man, you know, he's got that hardening of the arteries in the brain.

His brain is still very good, but he's probably still convinced that he did the right thing at Bell Harbor.

Oh, yes.

Of course, he justifies it everywhere.

Yeah, and that he probably thinks that he can thumb his nose at the country, and by God, he can't do it.

Nope, and he may give you the perfect excuse to take a dramatic step of some kind.

I've kicked this one with Schultz.

That just restructures... We've got to get somebody else in the deal.

We've got to get Conley involved in this again, you know, too.

Well, Conley has been to a degree this week with George, I know.

And I have been with George, but not at the same time as Conley.

But I do think that if it goes, we should be prepared for you to move quite rapidly.

And there are a couple of fallback positions that I've discussed with Shohei.

He and I discussed at lunch two days ago that we both think have some merit...

George tends to want to keep a labor participation in the board.

And my own, that's one possibility.

My own thought is that maybe this is the opportunity to take it over and do it ourselves on a hardline basis that just, you know, we appreciate that Fitz and Woodcock didn't, but obviously isn't going to work on a tripartite basis.

And don't let labor back in.

Yeah.

I don't think we should give Meany any way to get well.

If he does this...

Try this light-in-the-window stuff of George's.

No, no, no.

Utterly ridiculous.

Number one, you'll never get him back.

And number two, we look weak.

We look like we're saying, well, gee, please come...

There can't be any weakness.

No, there can't be.

You know, I was just reading the news summary, and I noticed that Duke's comment on the Chancellor program on the IT&T was really disgraceful.

Outrageous.

He didn't say one word about...

The basic problem, the basic question, what kind of a settlement was it?

Yeah, exactly.

You know, he didn't quote McLaren, and, you know, isn't it interesting how they dropped McLaren without a trace?

Oh, well, he was on, he did a, of course, McLaren did a superb job on fascination.

Did you see much of it in the press afterwards?

Yeah, a little story.

Monday, not much.

Very little.

No, they've so conveniently buried this stuff.

I've been looking at, I mean, the press coverage has been utterly atrocious now.

That's right.

Once again, that doesn't bother me too much if we get any luck today, which we're waiting to hear from.

Things are moving well on that score.

Well, they're making progress, let's put it that way, and the director was very helpful with John.

On that score, the ITT thing is an indication of what we're going to be up against in the campaign, a totally biased, well-pressed thing, and that's why this Massey operation is so important.

You know, really audit things, monitor things, and hit the networks night after night in the campaign.

It's got to be.

It's got to be done.

The reason I know a lot of fellows are saying, well, let's let the Dieter Beard case go away, and first of all, we can't make it go away.

It's not going to go away.

Well, Kennedy was in with Eastland yesterday, just working him over.

Was he?

Hard to get Janine back on today.

bring in the chile thing bring in the san diego life story what's chile got to do with the confirmation of klein dies of course not but they're they've got they've got a great fishing expedition going the reason that i am still breaking every thing i got to turn this one around is if we turn this around i think it'll discourage him i mean i think we

We gotta meet him on some ground and beat him, because otherwise this is the technique they would use the whole goddamn year.

They'll just put out some malcontents, you know, bitching about this settlement or that.

Well, Christ, they can manufacture stuff, Mr. President, and then run it into the hearings.

You know, this is an old technique by Anderson, and they just play hand in glove with him.

You know, we discovered this morning, he had this San Diego story...

a year ago, over a year ago, and didn't go with it.

He was timing it, and they decided to go through life rather than Anderson.

There's just a pattern here of these guys working together.

They're all working together, sure.

Sure, to try to build this kind of a smear campaign.

Yeah.

Skelly is a good fella from ABC.

He tells me he's now been assigned full-time to the ITT case, and it's Bill Gill who... Gill's a good man.

Yeah, and John says he can start...

working stuff through him, so we...

I hope you get one column written on let's not have a double standard in with regard to the conduct of negotiation of congressional hearings.

I mean, that's a hell of a good story.

It sure is.

You have to tell Willard Edwards Christ, he'll write it in the Chicago Tribune at least.

Yeah.

You know, every one guy will do it.

I don't know anybody else.

Well, Lasky will do it, but he's too damn close to us.

Why don't you try Willard Edwards?

Willard Edwards is a damn good idea.

He remembers, he covered the Hiss case.

Yeah, I can know, but our people should look up the editorials.

Have they finished that research yet?

They were written at the time giving the committee of non-American activities unshirted hell for our procedures, and we of course changed the procedures.

Now what the hell are they doing about this committee and its procedures?

That research hasn't been finished because I haven't seen it, but I will check.

Something that Hallett might get into, he's smart.

Yeah, okay.

I'll get him going back and working on that.

Well, good luck.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Yes, sir.

Hello, Mr. Coulson, please.