Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 22 › Conversation 022-009

Nixon phone call with Colson on Pay Board and George Meany

Thursday, March 23, 1972 · 7:53 PM–8:05 PM ET · White House Telephone · 11 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation022-009 on Tape 22 (tape position 00:15:15–00:26:26)StartThursday, March 23, 1972 at 7:53 PMEndThursday, March 23, 1972 at 8:05 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 022-009 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417192985 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss a strategic media push to frame the President’s recent Pay Board confrontation with AFL-CIO leader George Meany as a stand against special interests. The two also address the ongoing controversy surrounding the International Telephone and Telegraph (ITT) case, specifically expressing frustration over inconclusive FBI reports and potential leaks to Senator Edward Kennedy. Colson is tasked with notifying John Ehrlichman of concerns regarding Kennedy's prior knowledge of sensitive investigations, reflecting the administration's belief in systemic bureaucratic hostility.

Audio

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NARA Description

On March 23, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 7:53 pm to 8:05 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-009 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 22-9

Date: March 23, 1972
Time: 7:53 pm - 8:05 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

     The President’s Pay Board statement on George Meany, March 23, 1972
          -Follow-up
                -Clark MacGregor
                -John B. Connally
                -Congressional response
                     -Jacob K. Javits
                          -Labor Committee
                     -Hugh Scott
                     -Gerald R. Ford
                -Opposition to special interests
                     -Kenneth W. Clawson
                          -Calls to editors
                                 -Washington Star
                                 -Washington Post
                                 -New York Times
                                       -Editorial comment
                -Donald H. Rumsfeld forthcoming statement

           -Intensity of effort
                 -Connally
                 -Rumsfeld

International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
      -A report from J. Edgar Hoover
           -John D. Ehrlichman conversation with Hoover
                  -Experts’ conclusions
           -Ehrlichman’s conversation with Hoover
           -Disagreements among experts
           -Conclusions
           -Dita D. Beard
           -Revelations in press
           -Judiciary Committee
                  -James O. Eastland
                       -Talk with Robert C. Mardian
                             -Edward M. Kennedy
                             -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] report
                             -Kennedy
Show the rest of the log (51 more lines)
                                   -Leaks
                  -Conrad [first name unknown]
                  -Unknown man on Kennedy’s staff
           -Colson’s call to Ehrlichman
                  -Kennedy’s knowledge of investigation

Bureaucratic hostility to the President
     -Colson’s view
     -1930’s
     -Department of Justice
     -FBI
     -Meany
          -Bureau of Labor Statistics [BLS]
          -Consumer Price Index [CPI]

Meany response to the President’s statement
    -Conversation with George P. Shultz
    -Unknown labor official
          -American Federation of Labor – Congress of Industrial Organizations [AFL-
          CIO]
    -ITT case
    -Frank E. Fitzsimmons
          -Call from Colson

                -Relations with Meany
                -Call from Meany
                -Pay Board
                      -Building trades

******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/01/2018.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[022-009-w001]
[Duration: 39s]

     Charles W. Colson's conversation with Louis Harris
          -Primaries
               -New Hampshire
               -Florida
               -Illinois
               -Democrats
          -The President’s strengths and weaknesses

******************************************************************************

     ITT case
          -Ehrlichman
          -Kennedy
                -Knowledge of FBI report

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 4 minutes of this recording (about 39% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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I wanted to be sure that you had McGregor and his people alerted to the fact that they ought to follow up on this Meany thing.
You see, Connelly had it this morning.
I want to be sure that they held it there to follow up because they feel strongly on this.
I think this is one time when they can hit it hard.
Do you agree?
Professional people.
Yeah.
Good.
All right, fine.
Well, we're going to get Scott and Ford and all the others, you know, to really, the people that get on the news, really.
be on the side of the president against the special interests, the selfish special interests and all that.
Right.
Good.
Right.
Yeah, write it hard over the whole weekend.
See, our story tonight will run tomorrow.
Connolly will run in the afternoon on Saturday.
Well, they may have something marked, but you've got to assume that the congressional people hit it tomorrow.
for Saturday also, and Sunday papers.
Anybody we can think of that can get something Sunday for Monday might be a good idea, too.
I don't know what there is, but...
Right.
Good.
Well, of course, if Hoover's people, Chuck, say that it's done in June,
We can't really use our experts.
Well, it depends on how, unequivocally, it depends on how much of the, how conclusive they're by nature.
And it's the first of course, is the game itself.
These fellows in Chicago, who were fellow in Chicago, were absolutely, I don't know, persuaded that it wasn't them.
But Hoover's already sent a report up, huh?
Yeah.
Well, Ehrlichman is supposed to have talked to him this afternoon, but he didn't, though.
I know, but the main thing is what happened today.
Well, anyway.
Oh, I know.
All these experts argue with each other like a bunch of women.
Right.
That's right.
Well, we'll see what happens.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
They just leave it incomplete.
inconclusive how the hell they can do that well that's just the way they're doing they're dragging everything out
picking up every little smidgen of scandal and try to keep it going.
Somebody there is leaking to him.
Oh, undoubtedly.
He may have fixed Conrad, huh?
I know.
It does make a difference.
Be sure you call Ehrlichman and tell him about this, will you?
Be sure John knows that Teddy knew it before we did.
Sure.
That's right.
In all departments.
That's right.
So we got them all through justice, even in the Bureau.
Sure.
He knew it.
You know.
I think, on the other hand, he was probably surprised we took him on so hard, don't you think?
Or do you?
I don't know.
Particularly from his conversation, you see, as I say, George, by going in and being very nice to him, indicates, well, we're going to soft-love him, and he does.
Well, there was an interesting little quote out of a labor official today that was on the wire.
He said, I expect that Nixon will wait a couple of weeks and let the dust settle, and see what he does next.
And that was the point.
And that's an AFL-CIO theory.
And I am sure it's a neat figure.
And that was just ITT publicity about the Iowa big business.
But if he came crashing in on us, we would go up there and try to figure out how to get him back in the boat.
Oh, yes.
And he would tell us to go to hell, but I can't look back.
Oh, sure.
I don't think he expected you to walk out there and let him have us today.
I'm sure he did.
I'm sure he did.
And I'm sure he's also, because he's climbing the walls.
That's just crazy.
Correct, good.
Keep Fitz on the line.
Right.
Well, Meany has never been any friend of Fitz's either.
He hates the fact that Meany tries to order him around, and that Meany is considering himself to be a representative of labor.
Right.
And that's why, when you had that breakfast with me, I immediately took to your notes, because we've got Fitz coming in now.
Right.
Because Meany always holds this over.
Meany called him Monday and said, I want you in my office at 10 o'clock on Wednesday morning, so I won't be there.
Good.
And what Fitz is really enjoying now, and what Meany is going crazy over, is that labor people want to...
get anything into the board.
And, you know, the building trades are going to want it.
They've got to go to the consumer.
And that's going to put me in an element.
Let's see if Erlichman knows that Teddy Kennedy knew about this, though.
That's a very, very disturbing thing.
Well, it is.
I'll get that to him tonight.
Okay, thank you.

Also recorded on March 23, 1972

  • 692-006 5:22 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:22 pm to 5:23 pm.
  • 692-007 5:23 PM · 59 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), White House operator, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:23 pm to 6:24 pm.
  • 022-006 5:33 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked on the telephone from 5:33 pm to 5:34 pm.
  • 692-008 6:24 PM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Manolo Sanchez, and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House from 6:24 pm to 6:27 pm.
  • 692-009 6:27 PM · 38 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 6:27 pm to 6:28 pm.
  • 692-010 6:27 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House from 6:27 pm to 6:28 pm.
  • 022-007 7:41 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, White House operator, and Tricia Nixon Cox talked on the telephone from 7:41 pm to 7:47 pm.
  • 022-008 7:47 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:47 pm and 7:53 pm.

All 37 conversations from March 23, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 022-009, March 23, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417192985). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/022-009 (accessed November 2, 2026).