Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 22 › Conversation 022-011

Nixon phone call with Colson on ITT case and FBI

Friday, March 24, 1972 · 9:38 AM–9:45 AM ET · White House Telephone · 7 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation022-011 on Tape 22 (tape position 00:26:35–00:33:55)StartFriday, March 24, 1972 at 9:38 AMEndFriday, March 24, 1972 at 9:45 AMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 022-011 ↗ · National Archives Catalog, NAID 417192989 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss the political fallout of an FBI report regarding the ITT case, which appears to contradict claims of document forgery by Dita Beard. Concerned that the FBI’s findings support allegations against the administration, Nixon and Colson strategize on using expert testimony from McCrone and Tytell to create public confusion and neutralize the report's impact. They agree on the urgency of the situation, deciding to move quickly to challenge the narrative before it is fully solidified by the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Audio

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NARA Description

On March 24, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 9:38 am to 9:45 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-011 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 22-11

Date: March 24, 1972
Time: 9:38 am - 9:45 am
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

[See Conversation No. 326-4]

     International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
           -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] report
                -Latest developments
                -John D. Ehrlichman
                -Robert C. Mardian
                -J. Edgar Hoover
                      -Walter McCrone
                -Delivery to Judiciary Committee
                -McCrone’s findings
                      -Jack N. Anderson’s findings
                      -Unknown action
                -Ehrlichman
                      -Discussion with Hoover
                -Delivery to Senate
                      -Hoover’s motives
                            -Ehrlichman and Mardian
                            -Changes in report
                      -James O. Eastland
                      -FBI
                -Dita D. Beard
                -Investigation
                -FBI report
                      -Forgery
                            -Experts’ conclusions
                -Release
                      -Eastland

                   -Radio report
                         -Richard A. Moore
                         -Denial of forgery
                              -Counter testimony
                                     -Effect
             -Expert testimony
                   -Hoover
                   -McCrone
Show the rest of the log (46 more lines)
                         -Findings
                         -Character of typewriter type
                              -Date
                              -Pearl L. Tytell
                              -Date
                         -Composition of paper
                              -June 25th document
                         -Character of typewriter type
                              -Tytell
                              -Unknown man
                              -Date
                              -McCrone versus the FBI
                                     -McCrone’s request for meeting with Hoover
                              -McCrone
                                     -Mardian
                                          -FBI
             -Judiciary Committee
                   -Eastland
                   -Edward M. Kennedy
             -Release to press
                   -Moore
                   -McCrone
                   -Tytell
                   -White House strategy
                         -Timing
                         -Forgery
                         -Beard
                              -Future committee testimony
                         -Tytell
                         -McCrone

******************************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 03/01/2018.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[022-011-w001]
[Duration: 37s]

     Harris poll
          -News summary
                 -Attitude of women
                       -January 1971
                       -March 24, 1972 Washington Post study

******************************************************************************

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Mr. Colson.
Yes, sir, Mr. President.
Any word on that thing, on that FBI report yet?
Well, yes, we have more.
John Erlichman and I are meeting, and I just stepped out of his office to take this call.
John's theory at the moment is that, and Marty of Justice shares this, is that Hoover, who recognizes Macron as probably the top authority in the country, was afraid to
I just want to know, did the FBI give a report to the committee?
Yes, sir.
Which the committee now has, and what did it say?
Well, they haven't given us a copy, but we think, from what we were told, that it says the same thing their original report says, which is now at complete variance with McCrone's findings.
In other words, it supports Anderson, right?
Supports Anderson.
Well, that'll screw you up then.
You can't do the other one.
Well, it supports him in a way that we still might be able to, and John wants to talk to the director because the way it was all hinted yesterday.
Why did Hoover, after we had sent him a note, push it over there so fast?
Ehrlichman's theory, and Marty ensures this, is that Hoover was afraid
that someone would leak out the fact that he had changed his original report.
And he decided to get the thing up to Eastland and get it out of his hands and then be able to say to John, well, Jesus, that's the way that the chemist here found it, that he's protecting his own hide.
Well, let me say this, though.
With an FBI report, Chuck, I know PR well enough, you really can't fight it.
I mean, I'd like to be able to, but...
You know, the goddamn FBI, even though we know that it's not competent in this field, if you start fighting it, they'll just laugh you out of court.
You better just go on the need-a-beard thing.
Well, let me reserve the opportunity to give you the other side of that, Mr. President.
If the FBI report comes out which says there is no basis for arguing a forgery, which is essentially the conclusion that would be drawn in the press from that,
uh then you have then we're on the defensive in other words the fbi has purified the thing and if two recognized experts say well we disagree with the bureau's conclusions and here's why and can demonstrate it at least in the public mind even if the fbi carries good weight you get confusion you're going to get some confusion what do you think you just want to get it out today uh dick moore said he heard it on the on the radio coming in that the fbi had made a finding which
did not support the charge of forgery or which the FBI had issued a report which didn't show any indication of forgery.
That's the way it described the radio report.
Now, if that's so, and we have two people who are experts who say, yes, indeed, there was a forgery.
Right.
And we can show that there was.
Yeah.
And here's where, and the FBI is only doing a negative.
Well, the thing you've got to do then is just to confuse the issue in any event.
Well, yes, and if we can confuse it with people who are really...
Well, Hoover recognizes, what will Hoover say then if they're at the Chicago guy, whom he recognizes as an expert, what does he say to that?
Well, I think the only thing he'll be able to say, Mr. President, I don't know what he says to it, because his whole conduct here is curious, but the thing that, the only thing I think he can say is that, well, we didn't conduct the same tests, which is true.
So you're going to try to get your report out.
What does your Chicago guy show, anything?
Well, yes, sir.
Right now, he shows two significant things.
He shows that the type all through 1971 is the same.
In other words, there's no difference between...
It could have been typed any time in 1971 or early 1972.
Mrs. Teitel says, no, it was typed in January of 1972, but that's, again, a different theory.
But he does show that there is a paper difference, a difference in the composition of the paper.
on the June 25th document from all others during 1971.
And he has done that with a test that the Bureau did not conduct.
And he is not conclusive on that point yet, but he says he's 70% along the way.
So he disagrees with Keitel.
He says it's the same type, and she says no.
No, she says that there's a similarity between January and June.
And what this fellow says is, well, it could have been any of them.
It isn't.
It isn't that he disputes her, he simply says by chemical analysis, it could have been any of them, she says by her visual imprint analysis that it's more like January than June.
So they don't contradict each other, they're just different analyses.
But one thing that is clear is that the Bureau is saying that all the type in June is the same and all the type in July is different.
That's where McCrone and the Bureau are in total disagreement.
Now, McCrone has asked this morning if he can go see Hoover.
He's requested an opportunity to do it because he says, I'm sure I can show him.
He said, I know I'm right.
And Martian says that the Bureau regards McCrone as the top expert in the country.
Well, my own feeling is that...
Better move it fast.
I know the problem, you see, because with that thing up there to Eastland, Eastland will give it to Teddy and it'll be in the morning papers.
I suspect that... What's already out.
I suspect based on what...
I haven't heard it myself, but what Dick Moore said, that it is already out.
And...
The way it's stated, if it is stated as Dick Moore said, leaves a large opening for Mr. Macron to come out publicly today, if he is ready.
Of course, Titel is ready any time.
But the best we can...
I still think, Mr. President, that even though you can't win an argument with the Bureau, you can sure confuse this issue publicly.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Well, it's worth doing.
The only thing is, it's got to be done so fast.
I don't know that you can get them in there that fast.
Well, we may be able to.
The other side of it, Mr. President, which you should be aware of, is that...
I think, publicly, we've got to offer proof of a forgery to support Dita Beard's morale before she gets before that committee, so that we may have to create that conflict for other reasons as well.
Right, right, right.
That's a very good point.
Well, just so they, I'd get, even if you don't get, well, you, Titel will say it any time, won't she?
Yes, sir.
She appears as an ITT expert.
That isn't very good, is it?
Well, they both have been retained by ITT, both McCrone and Titel.
Okay.
But they've been doing this for years.
All right.
Well, they all try to move something today, will they, Chuck?
That's the present plan, Mr. President, but we don't want to do that until...

Also recorded on March 24, 1972

  • 326-002 9:20 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 9:20 am and 9:38 am.
  • 326-003 9:20 AM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 9:20 am and 9:38 am.
  • 326-004 9:38 AM · 5 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:38 am to 9:45 am.
  • 022-012 9:45 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:45 am and 12:54 pm.
  • 326-005 9:45 AM · 31 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, unknown person(s), and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 9:45 am and 9:50 am.
  • 326-006 9:45 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 9:45 am and 9:50 am.
  • 326-007 9:45 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 9:45 am and 9:50 am.
  • 326-008 9:50 AM · 51 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:50 am to 10:45 am.

All 35 conversations from March 24, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 022-011, March 24, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives (NAID 417192989). Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/022-011 (accessed November 2, 2026).