← 022-068022-070 →

Conversation 022-069

TapeTape 22StartMonday, April 3, 1972 at 7:12 PMEndMonday, April 3, 1972 at 7:19 PMTape start time02:52:15Tape end time02:59:03ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed the military situation in Vietnam, specifically the ongoing North Vietnamese offensive and the impact of improving weather conditions on U.S. air operations. Nixon directed the immediate expansion of naval gunfire support against enemy targets along Route One in North Vietnam, expressing his willingness to escalate strikes, including potential operations near Haiphong. They also reviewed diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union, agreeing to set a 24-hour deadline for a response regarding the President’s visit to Poland to preempt further media leaks.

Vietnam WarNaval gunfireAir strikesSoviet UnionDiplomacyMilitary strategy
AudioNARA Description

On April 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 7:12 pm to 7:19 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-069 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 22-69

Date: April 3, 1972
Time: 7:12 pm - 7:19 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Vietnam
          -Weather
              -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer’s report to Kissinger

     -Tanks
           -Naval gunfire
           -Route One
     -Naval gunfire
           -Kissinger’s view
                 -Use in North Vietnam
                      -Dong Hoi area
                      -Authorization
                             -Timing
                             -Moorer
                      -Route One
                             -Location
                      -Cruisers and destroyers
     -Weather
           -Improvement
           -Ceiling
     -Air strikes
           -Damage assessment
                 -Tanks and trucks
           -Weather
                 -Improvement
                      -Results
           -Tanks, guns, artillery, surface-to-air-missiles [SAMs]
           -Troops
           -Weather
                 -Change
                      -Timetable
           -Kissinger’s view
                 -Possible settlement
                      -North Vietnamese offensive
                             -Date
     -Moorer
     -Melvin R. Laird
           -Support for air strikes
           -Moorer
           -The President’s view
                 -Haiphong Attack
                      -Kissinger’s view
                      -Timing
                      -Soviet response

Soviet Union

          -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
               -Message to Moscow
                     -Forthcoming US-Soviet Summit
                     -Berlin
                           -German treaties
                           -US message to Willy Brandt
                                 -The President’s decision
          -The President’s forthcoming trip to Poland
               -Message from the Soviets
                     -Delay
                           -Kissinger’s view
                                 -Poles
               -Soviet response
               -Possibility of a news leak

     Kissinger briefing for someone
          -Forthcoming meeting with the President
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Hi.
Hi, Henry.
Yeah.
I talked to Mora, and the weather is lifting.
It won't be as good yet, but it's better than it has been.
Good.
And...
I'm just curious as to how they got their claim to have gotten some tanks.
Was that just an accident, or...?
Well, no.
They got it partly with naval gunfire.
You see, they're coming down on Route 1, which is running parallel to the coast.
Right.
And they're really putting it in there.
I should hope so.
Well, naval gunfire, that's safe enough for our boys.
That's right.
Now, I think, Mr. President, if this operation continues, we ought to authorize naval gunfire to be used in North Vietnam right up to that Dong Hoi area.
Absolutely.
That's where they come down.
Let's authorize it immediately.
I don't see any reason to wait.
I should authorize it now.
Authorize it immediately for more.
Put the Navy up there and start hitting everything that moves on that road.
Does it run along the sea?
Exactly.
Parallel to the sea.
By God, why don't we do that?
What are they using, cruisers?
They've moved a cruiser and several destroyers, and I think you could put some over there.
All right.
Tell them to put the naval gunfire along the whole road and make it impassable.
Right.
But go 40 miles up there.
But what I'm getting at, Henry, is that
Let's kid ourselves.
Is the weather lifting, or is this a false report again, or what is it?
No, I think it is lifting.
It isn't perfect yet, but if the ceiling gets up to 4,000 feet, then they can really do a job, even though they still have the ceiling.
And I think they are going in there.
They've got the message, there's no question.
But this message you read to me earlier did indicate...
They claim at least they've knocked out 25 tanks, huh?
That's right, 27 trucks.
Cut it in half, still 15.
20 trucks.
Well, the tanks are what matter, my God, compared to a truck.
A tank is something.
Well, we ought to grind.
If the weather lifts early enough so that we can get out, then they're going to pay a hell of a price for it.
We'll take out their tanks.
We'll take out their guns, their artillery.
We'll take out their sands.
And they're going to have a hell of a time.
And we'll put a lot of stuff down there that can spread around and knock off some of those people.
We're going to have two weeks now that are going to be tough.
But in many ways, Mr. President, this is a blessing because if we can...
It may not.
Listen, if the weather lifts, it won't be two weeks.
We'll do it in four or five days, in my opinion.
Well, they won't do it.
I think it will take a week or two, but... Watch, though.
If the weather lifts, it's going to either make or break, I think, sooner than you think.
That's the way I sense it.
But I think we may get a settlement out of this.
Well, I do not think... My nightmare was that they would come in August.
I am actually relieved that they've done it now.
Well, we'll be finding out.
And they...
If they could do this now, they sure as hell could do it in August and more.
More.
And we'd have less flexibility and less air power.
That's the point.
And so the thing to do is to just give it now.
But more, you know, is he talking in an aggressive way or in still a half-assed way?
Oh, no, Mr. Peppers.
They've gotten the message.
All right.
Now, Laird has been trying all day, and he wants to come over to show his goodwill.
I think we ought to let him come to him.
Well.
by his goodwill, he means he's going to support this or not?
Yeah, he's going to support it.
He should come with more.
But I want him totally, I want him worked over before he gets here so there's no crapping around.
He's got to be told.
that we cannot lose here, and as far as I'm concerned, I'll do everything that's necessary, including taking out Haiphong, and I mean it.
I intend to do that.
There's nothing you could do in the Haiphong area, is there, just a shot across the bow?
I'm not so sure.
I'm just thinking of...
It would take too long, I think, if we do, if we get going in this area now.
And then the 48-hour strike on top of it.
I think the Russians are going to do something.
They're not going to risk everything.
You think they've got across to the Bremen?
Well, at least to the Bremen, maybe.
Oh, you'll get it, sir.
I'll get them, I'm sure they'll get them.
You will pass the word.
They are risking the summit.
They're risking Berlin.
I mean the German treaties, correct?
That's right.
And our whole relationship.
That's right.
Huh?
I told him we just can't consider sending a message to Trump.
Good.
Well, I won't send it.
Believe me.
I don't think you should send it anyway.
That's right.
I had no intention of sending it.
My point is, I just want him to know that he's knocking it off, what they've done.
That's right.
Well, I think if we don't hear from them about Poland tomorrow, we could just do it.
Well, that I'm sure of now, in view of this.
They didn't act, and so we'll say, well, just say we've gone too.
Why do you think they delayed on it?
Well, they may not have had a chance to have everyone together.
And they may just be accused of maybe going to the polls now.
Well, our going to Poland is going to change their attitude toward our visits, do you think?
Not after having made this move of offering them, of asking their attention.
Right.
Right.
But we'll just tell them tomorrow.
Don't you think you should tell them tomorrow that we can't hold them any longer?
It's starting to leak.
We ought to give them until the end of the day.
24 hours.
At the end of the day tomorrow.
Okay, let's do it.
All right.
In the meantime, I'll be over early in the morning.
When will you be through with your briefing from your little bastard that's coming over?
I'll be there today.
I'll be finished with that by 8 p.m. All right.
See you at 9 o'clock.
Right.
← 022-068022-070 →