Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 022-069
Date: Monday, April 3, 1972 at 7:12 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/022-069

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hello.
[0:03] Hi.
[0:03] Hi, Henry.
[0:04] Yeah.
[0:05] I talked to Mora, and the weather is lifting.
[0:10] It won't be as good yet, but it's better than it has been.
[0:14] Good.
[0:14] And...
[0:15] I'm just curious as to how they got their claim to have gotten some tanks.
[0:18] Was that just an accident, or...?
[0:20] Well, no.
[0:20] They got it partly with naval gunfire.
[0:25] You see, they're coming down on Route 1, which is running parallel to the coast.
[0:29] Right.
[0:30] And they're really putting it in there.
[0:32] I should hope so.
[0:33] Well, naval gunfire, that's safe enough for our boys.
[0:37] That's right.
[0:38] Now, I think, Mr. President, if this operation continues, we ought to authorize naval gunfire to be used in North Vietnam right up to that Dong Hoi area.
[0:52] Absolutely.
[0:52] That's where they come down.
[0:54] Let's authorize it immediately.
[0:56] I don't see any reason to wait.
[0:58] I should authorize it now.
[1:00] Authorize it immediately for more.
[1:02] Put the Navy up there and start hitting everything that moves on that road.
[1:06] Does it run along the sea?
[1:07] Exactly.
[1:10] Parallel to the sea.
[1:10] By God, why don't we do that?
[1:12] What are they using, cruisers?
[1:16] They've moved a cruiser and several destroyers, and I think you could put some over there.
[1:19] All right.
[1:20] Tell them to put the naval gunfire along the whole road and make it impassable.
[1:24] Right.
[1:24] But go 40 miles up there.
[1:26] But what I'm getting at, Henry, is that
[1:30] Let's kid ourselves.
[1:33] Is the weather lifting, or is this a false report again, or what is it?
[1:36] No, I think it is lifting.
[1:39] It isn't perfect yet, but if the ceiling gets up to 4,000 feet, then they can really do a job, even though they still have the ceiling.
[1:49] And I think they are going in there.
[1:54] They've got the message, there's no question.
[1:55] But this message you read to me earlier did indicate...
[1:57] They claim at least they've knocked out 25 tanks, huh?
[2:01] That's right, 27 trucks.
[2:03] Cut it in half, still 15.
[2:07] 20 trucks.
[2:09] Well, the tanks are what matter, my God, compared to a truck.
[2:12] A tank is something.
[2:17] Well, we ought to grind.
[2:19] If the weather lifts early enough so that we can get out, then they're going to pay a hell of a price for it.
[2:27] We'll take out their tanks.
[2:30] We'll take out their guns, their artillery.
[2:33] We'll take out their sands.
[2:35] And they're going to have a hell of a time.
[2:37] And we'll put a lot of stuff down there that can spread around and knock off some of those people.
[2:42] We're going to have two weeks now that are going to be tough.
[2:46] But in many ways, Mr. President, this is a blessing because if we can...
[2:50] It may not.
[2:50] Listen, if the weather lifts, it won't be two weeks.
[2:53] We'll do it in four or five days, in my opinion.
[2:55] Well, they won't do it.
[2:57] I think it will take a week or two, but... Watch, though.
[2:59] If the weather lifts, it's going to either make or break, I think, sooner than you think.
[3:05] That's the way I sense it.
[3:09] But I think we may get a settlement out of this.
[3:12] Well, I do not think... My nightmare was that they would come in August.
[3:17] I am actually relieved that they've done it now.
[3:21] Well, we'll be finding out.
[3:23] And they...
[3:23] If they could do this now, they sure as hell could do it in August and more.
[3:28] More.
[3:28] And we'd have less flexibility and less air power.
[3:33] That's the point.
[3:33] And so the thing to do is to just give it now.
[3:35] But more, you know, is he talking in an aggressive way or in still a half-assed way?
[3:42] Oh, no, Mr. Peppers.
[3:42] They've gotten the message.
[3:43] All right.
[3:44] Now, Laird has been trying all day, and he wants to come over to show his goodwill.
[3:52] I think we ought to let him come to him.
[3:53] Well.
[3:53] by his goodwill, he means he's going to support this or not?
[4:07] Yeah, he's going to support it.
[4:07] He should come with more.
[4:08] But I want him totally, I want him worked over before he gets here so there's no crapping around.
[4:10] He's got to be told.
[4:12] that we cannot lose here, and as far as I'm concerned, I'll do everything that's necessary, including taking out Haiphong, and I mean it.
[4:20] I intend to do that.
[4:28] There's nothing you could do in the Haiphong area, is there, just a shot across the bow?
[4:33] I'm not so sure.
[4:34] I'm just thinking of...
[4:37] It would take too long, I think, if we do, if we get going in this area now.
[4:43] And then the 48-hour strike on top of it.
[4:46] I think the Russians are going to do something.
[4:52] They're not going to risk everything.
[4:53] You think they've got across to the Bremen?
[4:54] Well, at least to the Bremen, maybe.
[5:01] Oh, you'll get it, sir.
[5:02] I'll get them, I'm sure they'll get them.
[5:03] You will pass the word.
[5:04] They are risking the summit.
[5:04] They're risking Berlin.
[5:06] I mean the German treaties, correct?
[5:16] That's right.
[5:16] And our whole relationship.
[5:17] That's right.
[5:17] Huh?
[5:17] I told him we just can't consider sending a message to Trump.
[5:18] Good.
[5:19] Well, I won't send it.
[5:20] Believe me.
[5:21] I don't think you should send it anyway.
[5:27] That's right.
[5:28] I had no intention of sending it.
[5:29] My point is, I just want him to know that he's knocking it off, what they've done.
[5:34] That's right.
[5:36] Well, I think if we don't hear from them about Poland tomorrow, we could just do it.
[5:41] Well, that I'm sure of now, in view of this.
[5:44] They didn't act, and so we'll say, well, just say we've gone too.
[5:50] Why do you think they delayed on it?
[5:51] Well, they may not have had a chance to have everyone together.
[5:58] And they may just be accused of maybe going to the polls now.
[6:04] Well, our going to Poland is going to change their attitude toward our visits, do you think?
[6:15] Not after having made this move of offering them, of asking their attention.
[6:19] Right.
[6:19] Right.
[6:19] But we'll just tell them tomorrow.
[6:21] Don't you think you should tell them tomorrow that we can't hold them any longer?
[6:25] It's starting to leak.
[6:27] We ought to give them until the end of the day.
[6:30] 24 hours.
[6:31] At the end of the day tomorrow.
[6:32] Okay, let's do it.
[6:33] All right.
[6:34] In the meantime, I'll be over early in the morning.
[6:37] When will you be through with your briefing from your little bastard that's coming over?
[6:44] I'll be there today.
[6:45] I'll be finished with that by 8 p.m. All right.
[6:46] See you at 9 o'clock.
[6:46] Right.