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Conversation 022-077

TapeTape 22StartTuesday, April 4, 1972 at 8:45 PMEndTuesday, April 4, 1972 at 8:50 PMTape start time03:06:29Tape end time03:11:29ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On April 4, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 8:45 pm to 8:50 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-077 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 22-77

Date: April 4, 1972
Time: 8:45 pm - 8:50 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

[See Conversation No. 329-9]

     Vietnam
          -Weather
              -Report
                   -Kissinger’s call to Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
                   -Projection
              -Results

-Shelling
      -Time
-Time Of Day
-Ground Action
-Weather
      -Projection
            -Possible clearing
                  -Opportunities for air strikes
-Possible air strike at Haiphong
      -Plan
      -Weather
      -Timing
      -Possible diplomatic reaction
      -List of ships in the harbor
-Nguyen Van Thieu
      -Kissinger summary
      -South Vietnamese ambassadors
            -Talks with other ambassadors
                  -Demilitarized zone [DMZ] attacks
      -US ambassadors
            -The President’s instructions
-Air attacks
      -Air Force
            -Men
            -Equipment
-B-3 area
      -Attacks
      -Instructions to Moorer
      -Military Region One [MR 1]
      -Air sorties
            -Number
            -B-52s
                  -Areas of bombardment
                         -MR 1
                  -Authority
                         -DMZ
                  -Surface-to-air Missiles [SAMs]
                  -Moorer
-Weather
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hello.
Mr. Kissinger.
Yeah.
I wonder if you had any report on the weather.
I just was calling Moorer.
This is why it took a minute.
His report was that it'd be like today.
Yeah.
With some holes opening up in the afternoon.
Yeah.
It is heartbreaking.
They cut all the authorities.
They
Got the toughest president they're going to have.
The goddamn bastards can't go.
So it's the same thing.
But they are going to start shelling tonight.
Yeah, well, that'll help a little.
Well, that'll be a little shot across the bow, but it's about all.
Otherwise, no further reports.
It's night out there now, isn't it?
It's day out there now.
Oh, yeah, it's day, of course.
It's just started.
How about the ground action?
About the same?
About the same.
But the weather, no projection.
Well, the projection.
They think it's going to break any time, huh?
Well, they think it's going to clear a little in the afternoon, and they're going to get some strikes in then.
Right.
You never know.
Whenever it breaks, it's going to break fairly fast.
And when it does, it'll all hell break loose.
Boy, that's the time to give it to them.
That's right.
Okay.
Well, we can't do anything about it, Henry.
No, we've just got to...
I think, Mr. President, we've got this thing at the breaking point now.
The main thing is that I want you to go forward, though, on that Haiphong thing.
That intrigues me very much.
Well, we are getting a plan tomorrow morning for a Haiphong strike.
Yeah.
I think just popping a couple in there might be useful.
The weather up there is all right, isn't it?
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, we can do nothing else.
Hitting that would be useful.
Well, I think ideally it would be better a little later.
Yeah, I know.
Before the bombing gets settled.
Yeah.
Settled in.
I agree.
I agree.
But if we're going to be stuck, Henry, too long here, we can't be stuck in the mud all the time.
That's right, Mr. President.
We can't give them much more than 24 more hours.
Because otherwise... We've got to do something dramatic soon.
Yeah.
Well, let's see.
Just running it out.
Well, we'll talk about it in the morning.
But if you hit Haiphong, that'll raise all hell diplomatically and the rest.
That's right.
We're getting a list of all the ships that are in there and so forth.
Yeah.
I made a little note on the confidential summary you sent in, in which I noted that Pew's South Vietnamese ambassadors were talking to all the ambassadors abroad with regard to the coming across the DMZ, and I ordered that all of our ambassadors do likewise.
They can get off their fat asses and go
and go start talking to people, don't you agree?
Absolutely.
Let's run a huge diplomatic offensive in this respect.
Right, absolutely.
I think this is going to be the last spasm for better or worse now.
Well, it can't be for worse, you know.
That's right.
We're not going to say better or worse.
We'll never get these goddamn Air Force guys to fly.
Yeah.
Well, we can't expect them to fly, Henry.
I mean, let's face it, it's the equipment, not the men.
It's the equipment.
These are brave men.
They're willing to do anything.
No, they bought the wrong equipment.
Yeah, but on the other hand, well, how about concentrating in the B-3 area?
That's open, isn't it?
That they are doing.
Could we just tell more in view of the fact it's closed in to give a massive strike to the B-3 area for the next 24 hours?
Could we do that?
Well, everything that isn't being used in MR-1 is being used in the B-3 area.
And they're hitting it hard, are they?
That's right.
They flew about 300 sorties there yesterday.
That's bound to have some effect, isn't it?
Oh, yes, yes, absolutely.
53s are being used there?
Yes.
Now, what about the 53s above?
No, 52s are mostly used in MR1 because they don't need weather.
I know, but 52s.
Tell me about the 52s.
Yeah, I know, but let's use the 52s the other place, too.
Well, we have given authority.
You've given authority to use it above the DMZ, have you?
Right.
All right.
What?
For what?
For 35 miles.
Right.
But they haven't popped anything there yet.
No, because they want to do one day of SAMS.
Oh, yeah, they've got to suppress.
I see.
Because of the danger, right.
Right.
Well, they've got all the authority they need, and Moore has no complaints on that score, has he now?
Well, Mr. President, they are Popeye.
They are?
Yeah.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Well, okay.
Right, Mr. President.
Just pray for the goddamn...
A weatherman to get in there, okay?
Right, Mr. President.
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