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Conversation 022-080

TapeTape 22StartWednesday, April 5, 1972 at 9:27 AMEndWednesday, April 5, 1972 at 9:32 AMTape start time03:11:47Tape end time03:16:18ParticipantsKissinger, Henry A.;  Moorer, Thomas H. (Adm.);  Nixon, Richard M. (President)Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and Admiral Thomas Moorer discussed the urgent need to increase the intensity of U.S. air operations in Vietnam, specifically focusing on expanding B-52 sorties to achieve psychological impact. Nixon expressed dissatisfaction with current leadership and mandated the immediate appointment of an experienced, aggressive air commander to oversee the campaign. Moorer committed to providing a recommendation for this new commander by noon and working with the Air Force Chief of Staff to expedite the deployment of additional aircraft.

Vietnam WarB-52 strikesMilitary commandAir powerPresidential directive
AudioNARA Description

On April 5, 1972, Henry A. Kissinger, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone from 9:27 am to 9:32 am. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-080 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 22-80

Date: April 5, 1972
Time: 9:27 am - 9:32 am
Location: White House Telephone

Henry A. Kissinger talked with Adm. Thomas H. Moorer.

[See Conversation No. 330-7B]

     Vietnam
          -Kissinger’s meeting with the President
                -Briefing by Gen. John W. Vogt, Jr.
                      -Air attacks
          -Air commander
                -The President’s concerns
                -Experience
                -[Forename unknown] Macnichol [sp?]
                      -Background
                            -Moorer’s view
                                  -Thailand
                -Recommendation
                -Gen. Lucius DuB. Clay, Jr.
                -Vogt
                -Moorer’s recommendation
                      -Talk with the Air Force Chief of Staff
          -Naval bombardment
                -Destroyers
          -B-52 strikes
                -“Iron hand” aircraft
                      -Vogt

The President talked with Moorer at an unknown time between 9:27 am and 9:32 am.

          -B-52 strikes
                -The President’s instructions
                     -Impact
                     -Altitude
                     -Number of sorties
                     -B-3 area
                     -Increases
                           -Reasons
                     -Weather
                     -Technical problems
                     -B-3 area
                     -Number of missions
                           -Region One
                           -Additional aircraft
                                 -Timing
          -Air commander
                -The President’s view
                     -Experience

                     -Need for change
                     -Imagination
                -Melvin R. Laird
                -Moorer recommendation
                     -Time
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Good morning, sir.
Hello.
Tom, it's Henry.
Oh, Henry, yeah.
I'm sitting here with the president, and we were going over the superb briefing that Vogue gave us.
Right.
Gave us this morning.
Yeah, well, we tried to explain the air situation to you, Henry.
Well, it was very well done.
But the concern that the president has is whether we don't really need...
Yes.
The president raised the point that he wants an experienced air commander out there.
We understand you've got a new guy out there now.
Yeah, McNichol.
Yeah, but he's got no experience in this.
We've got all our trips riding on this.
Well, he came from, I think he's had experience in the sense that he, all the forces down in Thailand are under his command, you know, and he's been working with them.
But fine, I...
But we would like a recommendation, the President would like a recommendation by noon.
of who the best man would be who could take this battle over now.
All right.
During this offensive.
Fine.
Well, I'll certainly get one.
I'd be glad to, and I think that the President's right.
He's absolutely determined to get vigor into this campaign and to get the most experienced man, or maybe we should get Clay back out there.
Well, we could get Clay, and we could consider Johnny Vogt.
We'd be delighted with Vogue.
That's another possibility.
Yeah.
All right.
We'll get you one.
Because he knows what we want.
But can you give us a recommendation by noon, and can we get him on a plane then soon?
Yes.
I'll talk to the chief staff of the Air Force immediately.
Good.
Otherwise, we were delighted with what the destroyers are doing.
The president's very pleased with it.
Well, we're going to do more.
We're going to send some more down there.
And if we can step up the B-52 strikes, that's a little worrisome that they are flying so little.
Yeah, well, they flew, see now, did Vought explain to you that the... Yeah, he explained the Iron Hand.
Iron Hand, all right.
Yeah, he explained that properly.
Now, we're sending more Iron Hand aircraft out to do, because occasionally they've had a depression.
The President is... Say, Tom, the thing I want you to do, now on the B-52s in this instance, they're, for psychological reasons,
Now, let's forget the Cloud Clever and all the rest and so forth.
Have them fly at 95,000 or 110,000 feet and drop their goddamn bombs in the boondocks, but get a hell of a lot of sorties flown by B-52s today.
Is that clear?
Yes, sir.
Get those 52s flying.
Now, at least let them do it around the B-3 area.
That's open, isn't it?
Yes, sir.
They have been.
Yes, I know they have been.
All right.
I don't want to see another report with 16 sorties or B-52s.
i want the enemy to know that we're really letting them have it so so get them in there now i just we've got to have it for psychological reasons we can't have this what appears to be a pusillanimous effort now i know that there are brave men out there they're risking their lives they're fighting all that sort of thing but up to this point you know and i know and i know the reason it's weather and their technical reasons and this and that and the other thing but we have to have some sort of massive strike in the next
12 hours, 24 hours.
You see what I mean?
You just got to have one.
And it doesn't have to be in that area of the battle even.
Put the damn thing down on the B-3 area.
Put the 52s in there and just knock the bejesus out of them.
You'll hit something.
You just got to do it.
They flew their maximum number of missions yesterday.
They only flew 16 in the military Region 1, but they flew their 50 missions.
They're flying 50 missions a day, which is their maximum.
As you know, we've sent some more planes and pretty soon they'll be...
When will they be out there?
Is it next month or two months from now?
No, sir.
They're on their way out there.
How long does it take them to fly?
They ought to be able to fly in a couple of days.
Yeah, okay.
Well, okay.
Now, on the commander, I've got to get the most experienced, tough commander, not as an observer, but in charge.
Now, let me say, let me say, I've studied warfare enough to know, and this is the hardest thing you do, but
More wars have been lost by not changing commanders than changing them.
And you've got to have the most experienced and also a fellow with imagination and verve who will take the orders and get him the hell out there as fast as we can.
And I'll work the thing out with Laird.
Okay?
Yes, sir.
All right.
You'll give us a name by noon, will you?
Yes, sir.
All right.
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