Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 022-080
Date: Wednesday, April 5, 1972 at 9:27 AM
Participants: Kissinger, Henry A.; Moorer, Thomas H. (Adm.); Nixon, Richard M. (President)
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/022-080

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Good morning, sir.
[0:02] Hello.
[0:03] Tom, it's Henry.
[0:04] Oh, Henry, yeah.
[0:05] I'm sitting here with the president, and we were going over the superb briefing that Vogue gave us.
[0:10] Right.
[0:11] Gave us this morning.
[0:12] Yeah, well, we tried to explain the air situation to you, Henry.
[0:15] Well, it was very well done.
[0:16] But the concern that the president has is whether we don't really need...
[0:23] Yes.
[0:24] The president raised the point that he wants an experienced air commander out there.
[0:29] We understand you've got a new guy out there now.
[0:32] Yeah, McNichol.
[0:34] Yeah, but he's got no experience in this.
[0:36] We've got all our trips riding on this.
[0:39] Well, he came from, I think he's had experience in the sense that he, all the forces down in Thailand are under his command, you know, and he's been working with them.
[0:49] But fine, I...
[0:50] But we would like a recommendation, the President would like a recommendation by noon.
[0:55] of who the best man would be who could take this battle over now.
[0:58] All right.
[0:59] During this offensive.
[1:00] Fine.
[1:00] Well, I'll certainly get one.
[1:03] I'd be glad to, and I think that the President's right.
[1:06] He's absolutely determined to get vigor into this campaign and to get the most experienced man, or maybe we should get Clay back out there.
[1:17] Well, we could get Clay, and we could consider Johnny Vogt.
[1:19] We'd be delighted with Vogue.
[1:21] That's another possibility.
[1:23] Yeah.
[1:23] All right.
[1:23] We'll get you one.
[1:24] Because he knows what we want.
[1:27] But can you give us a recommendation by noon, and can we get him on a plane then soon?
[1:32] Yes.
[1:33] I'll talk to the chief staff of the Air Force immediately.
[1:36] Good.
[1:39] Otherwise, we were delighted with what the destroyers are doing.
[1:44] The president's very pleased with it.
[1:45] Well, we're going to do more.
[1:47] We're going to send some more down there.
[1:49] And if we can step up the B-52 strikes, that's a little worrisome that they are flying so little.
[1:55] Yeah, well, they flew, see now, did Vought explain to you that the... Yeah, he explained the Iron Hand.
[2:01] Iron Hand, all right.
[2:02] Yeah, he explained that properly.
[2:03] Now, we're sending more Iron Hand aircraft out to do, because occasionally they've had a depression.
[2:09] The President is... Say, Tom, the thing I want you to do, now on the B-52s in this instance, they're, for psychological reasons,
[2:17] Now, let's forget the Cloud Clever and all the rest and so forth.
[2:21] Have them fly at 95,000 or 110,000 feet and drop their goddamn bombs in the boondocks, but get a hell of a lot of sorties flown by B-52s today.
[2:31] Is that clear?
[2:32] Yes, sir.
[2:32] Get those 52s flying.
[2:34] Now, at least let them do it around the B-3 area.
[2:36] That's open, isn't it?
[2:37] Yes, sir.
[2:38] They have been.
[2:38] Yes, I know they have been.
[2:40] All right.
[2:41] I don't want to see another report with 16 sorties or B-52s.
[2:45] i want the enemy to know that we're really letting them have it so so get them in there now i just we've got to have it for psychological reasons we can't have this what appears to be a pusillanimous effort now i know that there are brave men out there they're risking their lives they're fighting all that sort of thing but up to this point you know and i know and i know the reason it's weather and their technical reasons and this and that and the other thing but we have to have some sort of massive strike in the next
[3:14] 12 hours, 24 hours.
[3:17] You see what I mean?
[3:18] You just got to have one.
[3:19] And it doesn't have to be in that area of the battle even.
[3:22] Put the damn thing down on the B-3 area.
[3:24] Put the 52s in there and just knock the bejesus out of them.
[3:28] You'll hit something.
[3:30] You just got to do it.
[3:31] They flew their maximum number of missions yesterday.
[3:36] They only flew 16 in the military Region 1, but they flew their 50 missions.
[3:41] They're flying 50 missions a day, which is their maximum.
[3:44] As you know, we've sent some more planes and pretty soon they'll be...
[3:47] When will they be out there?
[3:47] Is it next month or two months from now?
[3:50] No, sir.
[3:50] They're on their way out there.
[3:51] How long does it take them to fly?
[3:52] They ought to be able to fly in a couple of days.
[3:54] Yeah, okay.
[3:56] Well, okay.
[3:57] Now, on the commander, I've got to get the most experienced, tough commander, not as an observer, but in charge.
[4:03] Now, let me say, let me say, I've studied warfare enough to know, and this is the hardest thing you do, but
[4:09] More wars have been lost by not changing commanders than changing them.
[4:12] And you've got to have the most experienced and also a fellow with imagination and verve who will take the orders and get him the hell out there as fast as we can.
[4:23] And I'll work the thing out with Laird.
[4:25] Okay?
[4:25] Yes, sir.
[4:26] All right.
[4:26] You'll give us a name by noon, will you?
[4:28] Yes, sir.
[4:28] All right.