← 022-148022-150 →

Conversation 022-149

TapeTape 22StartSunday, April 16, 1972 at 10:55 AMEndSunday, April 16, 1972 at 2:25 PMTape start time05:41:39Tape end time05:47:31ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and H.R. Haldeman discussed strategies to secure the confirmation of Richard G. Kleindienst as Attorney General amidst ongoing legislative obstacles. They specifically reviewed a plan for Senator Paul J. Fannin to initiate negotiations with Senator Sam Ervin regarding the testimony of Peter M. Flanigan in an effort to resolve concerns over executive privilege and prevent a filibuster. Nixon emphasized the need for urgency, instructing Haldeman to have Mitchell facilitate an immediate approach to Ervin while ensuring the administration receives public credit for the proposed compromise.

Richard G. KleindienstSam ErvinPeter M. FlaniganJohn N. MitchellConfirmation processExecutive privilegeFilibuster
AudioNARA Description

On April 16, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:55 am and 2:25 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-149 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 22-149

Date: April 16, 1972
Time: Unknown between 10:55 am and 2:25 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Apollo 16
          -Lift off
                -Television coverage
          -Haldeman’s talk with John N. Mitchell

     The President’s possible trip to Camp David
          -Weather
          -Delay
          -Postponement

     Richard G. Kleindienst nomination
          -Mitchell strategy
                -Peter M. Flanigan testimony
                      -Paul J. Fannin
                            -Deal with Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.
                            -Robert C. Byrd
                                  -Michael J. Mansfield
          -Jack Gleason testimony
                -Delay
                -Harry D. Steward testimony
                -James O. Eastland’s return
                -Steward
                      -San Diego
                -Ervin’s approval
                      -Filibuster
                -Byrd’s approval
          -Chances
                -Mitchell’s view
                      -Flanigan testimony
                      -Gleason testimony
                            -Gleason’s attorney
                            -Taking the 5th amendment
                            -Rules of germaneness
                                  -Eastland’s presence
                -Ervin’s approval
                      -Fannin’s offer
                            -Charles W. Colson and Clark MacGregor plan
                                  -Talk with Haldeman
          -Flanigan testimony
                -Publicity

                    -Ervin’s response
                          -Acceptance
          -Confirmation
               -Chances
                    -Mitchell’s understanding
                    -Ervin acceptance of offer
                    -In committee and on the floor
                          -Filibuster
               -Vote in Committee
                    -Ervin disruption
                    -Flanigan testimony
                    -Fannin
                          -Talk with Ervin
                                -White House authority
                                -Contacts with Mitchell
                                      -Haldeman’s talk with Mitchell
                                           -Colson and MacGregor
               -Delays
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, Apollo got off, all right.
Yeah.
I just saw it.
Did you see the shot?
No, I didn't see it.
I was talking to Mitchell.
I didn't realize it was gone.
Well, I saw it, so I'm covered on that.
Now, did you get, Mitchell, I was going to say that the weather turned bad at Camp David and we can't go at least, we're going to check again at 3.30 and see.
That'll be our last time.
If we can't go there, we won't have to go today.
Oh, okay.
That's too bad.
What's Mitchell's belief?
Well, Mitchell said he was going to present a similar pattern Monday, although he has a slightly different view on it.
He said that he thinks there's a real chance it might work, and that before we offer it, we've got to be damn sure that we carefully define the Flanagan germaneness.
And his thought was to have Fannin work on this as an independent party with Irvinn
try and make a deal with him.
And he's concerned that we also check Bird's intentions because Bird has Mansfield's franchise to run this thing.
Yeah.
He says that Gleason is held until, the Gleason testimony is held until Tuesday at the earliest and probably Wednesday because they're going to put Stewart on first on Tuesday after Eastland gets back.
So Gleason will not be on until Tuesday.
Who's Stewart?
He's the San Diego...
Stewart is the DA, the San Diego guy.
Then the point here is that if Irvin concurs in this maneuver, and John thinks there's at least an even chance that he will, on the basis that he at least gets a finger in the dichotomy of executive privilege, which is more than he's going to get otherwise, and he's in a bad position holding the nomination hostage to his other project...
that that would solve the filibuster problem and they could go ahead and get the thing voted on the floor if Byrd also concurs.
In other words, he still thinks there's a chance of getting Kleindienst.
He feels that we should go ahead with it.
In other words, he comes out with it for a different reason, but feels that either way we come out.
This smokes out the Irvin thing, and we discover once and for all whether they will settle.
In other words, if we put Flanagan on, will that do it or won't it?
Yeah, well, he did.
But he doesn't seem to be as concerned about the Gleason testimony.
Yes, he is.
He is concerned about it.
And he says, but if we get the other deal, he thinks as long as we've got Gleason's attorney programmed right, and he says, I'm concerned about it, but I think we can handle it.
We've got to put Gleason clear to the point of taking the Fifth Amendment if he has to.
And they also have the rules of germaneness worked out on the Gleason thing as long as Eastland's there when Gleason is called.
So, in any event, he thinks they ought to go ahead with Fannin making the Flanagan offer to Irvin, which will smoke it.
Then we'll know where we stand.
We'll know whether Irvin's going to buy it or not.
Well, can't we...
The point is, time's a-wasting.
We can do it right now.
All right, fine.
Let's go.
Then have Fannin get to Irvin immediately.
Irvin immediately.
Is that what you mean?
Yeah.
But Fannin's got to know what the offer is, doesn't he?
Yeah.
Do we know what the offer is?
Have Colson and McGregor got that worked out?
I just had them on the phone when you called.
All right, fine.
Well, you go ahead.
That's my next step.
Well, get that worked out and get Fannin to get to Irvin right away.
Let's make the offer.
But the main thing is I just don't want it done in this quiet goddamn way that Mitchell's talking about.
Remember...
Let's get some public credit for offering Flanagan.
Well, I said the problem with that is we don't get the public advantage of it.
And he said, oh, yeah, you still make the public offer, but you know what's going to happen to it.
Yeah, yeah, but let's...
Okay, fine.
Let's find out today what's going to happen, though.
Okay.
Irvin's got to say.
You understand?
Yep.
And if he doesn't, just make the public offer.
And then if they flop around, then Kleindies gets the hell out on Monday.
Now, John's got to understand that he's...
If Irvin doesn't accept this, if he fools around with it, Mitchell's got to understand that there's no way Kleindies can be confirmed.
He understands that, doesn't he?
Of course, I think he's totally wrong.
The only thing he's hanging on is that Irvin may accept it.
Yeah, right.
But I think he's totally wrong in thinking that if Irvin does accept it, that Kleindies can get confirmed.
But nevertheless, I think they'll just go on and on and on.
Well, they won't have the votes to go on and on if Irvin...
In the committee, but you realize the floor is also a place...
Yeah.
Or they can filibuster, see?
Yeah.
Well, that's right.
They've agreed to vote Thursday in the committee, have they?
Is that still holding?
Yeah.
But Irvin has said he will move to disrupt that if we don't let Flanagan on.
All right.
Well, move it with post-taste.
They don't have to work out every stinking line before Fannin talks to Irvin.
That's right.
Fannin should talk to Irvin and say he will come.
See, Fannin would do this without the authority of the White House.
Mitchell feels it should be done without his having the authority to make the deal.
All right, fine.
Who can get a hold of Fannin?
Mitchell.
All right.
Call Mitchell back and tell him you don't need to talk to Colson and McGregor and all that to do this.
I mean, just tell Colson and McGregor we've ordered it.
Tell Mitchell to get a hold of him right away.
But it must be done today.
Time's a-wasting.
Okay?
Yep.
And don't you agree on pushing for rather than waiting until tomorrow?
Sure.
Fine.
And Mitchell doesn't mind that, does he?
No, he agreed.
He thought we should, too.
All right.
Good.
Good.
All right.
Fine.
← 022-148022-150 →