Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 022-149
Date: Sunday, April 16, 1972 at 10:55 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")
Recording device: White House Telephone
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/022-149
National Archives Catalog: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417193263 (NAID 417193263)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:01] Well, Apollo got off, all right.
[0:04] Yeah.
[0:04] I just saw it.
[0:05] Did you see the shot?
[0:06] No, I didn't see it.
[0:07] I was talking to Mitchell.
[0:08] I didn't realize it was gone.
[0:09] Well, I saw it, so I'm covered on that.
[0:12] Now, did you get, Mitchell, I was going to say that the weather turned bad at Camp David and we can't go at least, we're going to check again at 3.30 and see.
[0:19] That'll be our last time.
[0:20] If we can't go there, we won't have to go today.
[0:22] Oh, okay.
[0:23] That's too bad.
[0:25] What's Mitchell's belief?
[0:26] Well, Mitchell said he was going to present a similar pattern Monday, although he has a slightly different view on it.
[0:36] He said that he thinks there's a real chance it might work, and that before we offer it, we've got to be damn sure that we carefully define the Flanagan germaneness.
[0:47] And his thought was to have Fannin work on this as an independent party with Irvinn
[0:54] try and make a deal with him.
[0:57] And he's concerned that we also check Bird's intentions because Bird has Mansfield's franchise to run this thing.
[1:04] Yeah.
[1:05] He says that Gleason is held until, the Gleason testimony is held until Tuesday at the earliest and probably Wednesday because they're going to put Stewart on first on Tuesday after Eastland gets back.
[1:16] So Gleason will not be on until Tuesday.
[1:20] Who's Stewart?
[1:21] He's the San Diego...
[1:23] Stewart is the DA, the San Diego guy.
[1:28] Then the point here is that if Irvin concurs in this maneuver, and John thinks there's at least an even chance that he will, on the basis that he at least gets a finger in the dichotomy of executive privilege, which is more than he's going to get otherwise, and he's in a bad position holding the nomination hostage to his other project...
[1:52] that that would solve the filibuster problem and they could go ahead and get the thing voted on the floor if Byrd also concurs.
[2:01] In other words, he still thinks there's a chance of getting Kleindienst.
[2:07] He feels that we should go ahead with it.
[2:09] In other words, he comes out with it for a different reason, but feels that either way we come out.
[2:14] This smokes out the Irvin thing, and we discover once and for all whether they will settle.
[2:20] In other words, if we put Flanagan on, will that do it or won't it?
[2:23] Yeah, well, he did.
[2:24] But he doesn't seem to be as concerned about the Gleason testimony.
[2:29] Yes, he is.
[2:30] He is concerned about it.
[2:31] And he says, but if we get the other deal, he thinks as long as we've got Gleason's attorney programmed right, and he says, I'm concerned about it, but I think we can handle it.
[2:43] We've got to put Gleason clear to the point of taking the Fifth Amendment if he has to.
[2:49] And they also have the rules of germaneness worked out on the Gleason thing as long as Eastland's there when Gleason is called.
[3:02] So, in any event, he thinks they ought to go ahead with Fannin making the Flanagan offer to Irvin, which will smoke it.
[3:12] Then we'll know where we stand.
[3:13] We'll know whether Irvin's going to buy it or not.
[3:15] Well, can't we...
[3:17] The point is, time's a-wasting.
[3:19] We can do it right now.
[3:20] All right, fine.
[3:21] Let's go.
[3:21] Then have Fannin get to Irvin immediately.
[3:24] Irvin immediately.
[3:26] Is that what you mean?
[3:27] Yeah.
[3:28] But Fannin's got to know what the offer is, doesn't he?
[3:31] Yeah.
[3:31] Do we know what the offer is?
[3:33] Have Colson and McGregor got that worked out?
[3:37] I just had them on the phone when you called.
[3:40] All right, fine.
[3:40] Well, you go ahead.
[3:41] That's my next step.
[3:42] Well, get that worked out and get Fannin to get to Irvin right away.
[3:45] Let's make the offer.
[3:46] But the main thing is I just don't want it done in this quiet goddamn way that Mitchell's talking about.
[3:49] Remember...
[3:50] Let's get some public credit for offering Flanagan.
[3:53] Well, I said the problem with that is we don't get the public advantage of it.
[3:56] And he said, oh, yeah, you still make the public offer, but you know what's going to happen to it.
[4:00] Yeah, yeah, but let's...
[4:01] Okay, fine.
[4:03] Let's find out today what's going to happen, though.
[4:05] Okay.
[4:05] Irvin's got to say.
[4:07] You understand?
[4:08] Yep.
[4:08] And if he doesn't, just make the public offer.
[4:10] And then if they flop around, then Kleindies gets the hell out on Monday.
[4:14] Now, John's got to understand that he's...
[4:19] If Irvin doesn't accept this, if he fools around with it, Mitchell's got to understand that there's no way Kleindies can be confirmed.
[4:25] He understands that, doesn't he?
[4:27] Of course, I think he's totally wrong.
[4:30] The only thing he's hanging on is that Irvin may accept it.
[4:33] Yeah, right.
[4:33] But I think he's totally wrong in thinking that if Irvin does accept it, that Kleindies can get confirmed.
[4:38] But nevertheless, I think they'll just go on and on and on.
[4:41] Well, they won't have the votes to go on and on if Irvin...
[4:44] In the committee, but you realize the floor is also a place...
[4:48] Yeah.
[4:49] Or they can filibuster, see?
[4:52] Yeah.
[4:53] Well, that's right.
[4:55] They've agreed to vote Thursday in the committee, have they?
[4:57] Is that still holding?
[4:58] Yeah.
[5:00] But Irvin has said he will move to disrupt that if we don't let Flanagan on.
[5:05] All right.
[5:05] Well, move it with post-taste.
[5:08] They don't have to work out every stinking line before Fannin talks to Irvin.
[5:12] That's right.
[5:13] Fannin should talk to Irvin and say he will come.
[5:16] See, Fannin would do this without the authority of the White House.
[5:20] Mitchell feels it should be done without his having the authority to make the deal.
[5:24] All right, fine.
[5:26] Who can get a hold of Fannin?
[5:27] Mitchell.
[5:28] All right.
[5:29] Call Mitchell back and tell him you don't need to talk to Colson and McGregor and all that to do this.
[5:33] I mean, just tell Colson and McGregor we've ordered it.
[5:35] Tell Mitchell to get a hold of him right away.
[5:37] But it must be done today.
[5:38] Time's a-wasting.
[5:39] Okay?
[5:40] Yep.
[5:40] And don't you agree on pushing for rather than waiting until tomorrow?
[5:43] Sure.
[5:44] Fine.
[5:44] And Mitchell doesn't mind that, does he?
[5:45] No, he agreed.
[5:46] He thought we should, too.
[5:47] All right.
[5:47] Good.
[5:48] Good.
[5:48] All right.
[5:49] Fine.