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Conversation 022-152

TapeTape 22StartSunday, April 16, 1972 at 2:25 PMEndSunday, April 16, 1972 at 2:29 PMTape start time05:49:24Tape end time05:54:12ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AI Summary

President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman discuss the precarious status of Richard G. Kleindienst’s nomination for Attorney General amidst ongoing ITT-related hearings. They deliberate on whether to force an early withdrawal of the nomination to avoid potentially damaging testimony from Jack Gleason and to mitigate further political fallout. The President directs Haldeman to coordinate with John Mitchell regarding the urgency of these maneuvers and the feasibility of securing confirmation through political negotiations with Senator Samuel Ervin.

Richard G. KleindienstJohn N. MitchellITT hearingsConfirmation processPolitical strategyJack Gleason
AudioNARA Description

On April 16, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 2:25 pm to 2:29 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 022-152 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 22-152

Date: April 16. 1972
Time: 2:25 pm - 2:29 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     Richard G. Kleindienst nomination
          -Haldeman report
               -Paul J. Fannin
                     -Contacts with Samuel J. Ervin, Jr.
               -Talks with John N. Mitchell and Clark MacGregor
                     -Mitchell/MacGregor meeting
                           -Report to Haldeman
          -Withdrawal
               -Russell B. Long
               -Mitchell view
                     -Chances of confirmation

                      -Termination of International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] hearings
                            -MacGregor’s view
                -Republicans
                      -Walkout
                      -Charles McC. Mathias, Jr.
                            -Peter M. Flanigan testimony
                                  -Mathias deal
                                       -Authority
          -Mitchell
          -Jack Gleason testimony
                -Charles W. Colson and MacGregor view
                      -Kleindienst withdrawal
                            -Timing
                -Avoidance
                -Content of testimony
          -Confirmation chances
                -MacGregor’s views
                      -Ervin
                      -Filibuster
                            -Edward M. Kennedy
          -Public interest
                -Flanigan testimony
          -Corruption in administration
                -John D. Ehrlichman study
          -Mitchell
                -Contacts with Fannin
                      -Urgency
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah.
Any progress report on that matter?
They're going ahead and going to move Fannin on to... Are they in town or Fannin and Irvin in town?
I don't know.
I haven't heard back from John.
But I've gone over the whole thing with him and then with Clark and he and Clark have gone over the specifics and then they're going to move Fannin.
All right.
Here I'll
Well, they got it going.
Yeah.
Let me know when you get any... Are they going to give you a report or are you going to check or what?
I'm going to check with them.
Yeah.
With John.
With John to see whether it's gone.
Now, there isn't any way that they feel they have to have this excuse, basically, for Clint East to get out of the thing, don't they?
Yeah.
I don't think he could do it anyway, just on the basis of Long and everybody else...
coming out against him.
Well, Mitchell, you see, thinks that he can, that this is a deal that may work.
Yeah, that's what I'm concerned about.
And, uh, that, well, except that then you end up with, uh, with, uh, a client needs conceivable, he thinks, with a client needs confirmation.
Yeah.
He also thinks that, that, uh, you don't necessarily turn off the hearings by the client needs withdrawal, which, uh, Oh, I see.
is the other side of that coin.
Now, Clark
feels very strongly that you do.
Well, in that case, though, in that case, it seems to me the Republicans walk out.
That's right.
If we can do it, which presumably we can.
Good God, I wouldn't think any Republican would stay around after that.
I mean, and just... Mathias would be the only question there.
Mm-hmm.
And I think if we make this move, that Mathias will go along with us.
He's gone along pretty well up to now.
Mm-hmm.
But he wants Kleindies, too.
I mean, he wants Flanagan.
And he tried to work out a deal on Flanagan himself, but without any authority.
Yeah.
Well, in any event, let Mitchell try his best to get out.
And frankly, if you
Gleason comes on, so Gleason will come on.
That's all there is to it.
You've just got to take whatever heat you've got.
There's only a small chance of Gleason going astray.
The thing is, the Colson-McGregor argument is, if we're going to pull Kleindienst on Thursday anyway, why the hell not pull him on Tuesday in time to avoid the Gleason hearing?
That's what I think.
And avoid the chance, even though it's only a small chance, of Gleason going astray.
Couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more.
Because I don't...
Tell me, does McGregor think that Kleindies can be confirmed?
Does he agree with Mitchell on that?
Might be, maybe.
Yeah, he does.
Yeah, well, maybe.
He does, but it's possible.
Yeah, if the play works with Irvin, you mean.
Yeah.
Because then you've got the thing to the floor and nobody except the Kennedy-type bad guys going for the filibuster and not much stomach for a filibuster on it.
Mm-hmm.
You've sort of got the steam out of it.
We've gone the last mile.
We gave them the voted for, the two-week additional hearings and all that crap.
And it's been really cranking along and on and on.
That's right.
I don't think it's, I may be wrong, but I don't think it has the tremendous public interest that they think it has.
Mm-hmm.
What do you think?
I don't think it does.
Maybe it's gained some as a result of the Flanagan trap.
I don't know.
Not so much.
I don't think so.
I don't think it's ad nauseum.
You know, people do get tired of these damn things because they haven't—it's too goddamn confusing and they—you have tried to get out that point that I made that I mentioned—well, I guess I mentioned to Ehrlichman that they still—to name one person of this administration or did he find out what they're saying, but he had to be canned for stealing.
He was going to move ahead on that.
You've got to be sure of our facts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, okay.
Okay.
If you can get the... How do we find...
If you can get our friend John to...
But he knows the urgency to try to do it today, does he?
Yep.
Yeah, he was moving right off on it.
Well, he'll do it.
All right, thanks.
And let me know when you have me here.
Okay.
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