Nixon phone call with Colson on ITT hearings and Vietnam War

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Hello?

Yes, sir, Mr. President.

I just wanted to get a report on the hearing.

How's it going?

Well, it's going fine so far.

I gave you misinformation last night.

Stewart was still on this morning.

They finished up with him very quickly and got Reinicke and Gillenwater on the stand.

Right.

I heard they were going to go on.

So they've been on this morning.

Originally, Gleason had been scheduled as the first witness, but we were able to get that one switched.

They're

the strategy this afternoon they broke at 12 30 and they're going back at 2 30. the strategy this afternoon is to have our fellows continue to press reineke and gillenwater with all sorts of questions to drag it out right gleason's council is advising the committee at 2 30 that he will not be available tomorrow so that puts them in kind of a crunch now they may decide as a result of that to

Have a night session?

Have a night session or put Reinecke and Gillenwater off or try to juggle things around.

Our fellows are alerted to fight that and stall and use all the tactics they can short of making it such a confrontation that we end up hurting ourselves by appearing to be fighting too hard to keep police in.

Why don't you do it at 2.30?

Couldn't you wait just a little longer?

I don't know.

We tried to get him to, and his counsel was...

I think getting a little nervous about his own client.

We may be able to.

I see.

We might be able to do that.

That still hasn't been...

Right.

Well, you never know.

His client may handle himself all right, too.

Well, he may.

It's one of those things.

It's one you'd like to...

But what about the...

They're not going to adjourn for the Senate floor hearings?

No, sir.

The reason that they decided... Our fellows up there decided against that.

It'd be an extra day of hearings?

That's right.

They just would put it over to Friday.

We have Flanagan going on tomorrow.

10.30.

Well, that'll be tomorrow.

Certainly they'll take all day for finding them, won't they?

I would think the Democrats would.

They'll try to do everything they can to draw them into other things, albeit fights over germaneness.

So if we get through today, if we're lucky enough, and it's

It's in the laps of the gods a little bit.

Well, I would think that our fellows could just say, well, they can't be there tonight, for God's sakes.

I think our people should walk out of any night session tonight.

That's ridiculous.

Yes, sir.

Don't you think so?

Yes, sir.

And they would block that.

I'm not worried about that.

What I'm worried about is they're getting to them at 4 o'clock, but even that, they've lost a lot of their steam to keep pressing.

We may pull it off.

Mm-hmm.

And it really depends on Eastland's attitude, and Mitchell has talked to Eastland several times, and I think Eastland knows the sensitivity, and of course, Ruska does.

Ruska sure as hell does.

Right.

Right, right.

We'll just keep at it.

Fine, fine.

Well, I won't worry about it.

I've got some other things to do this afternoon.

But anyway, that's fine.

It seems to me your people did very well yesterday, your VFW guy.

He was great.

The news summary didn't get his whole statement.

I didn't see the summary Bob was telling me about.

It carried on the wires.

But, God, he said these fellows are cheering the enemy on, and they want the enemy to win and the U.S. to lose.

It's tough stuff.

They're doing well today also.

I've been reading the wires this morning.

Goldwater filed that.

resolution, condemning North Vietnam.

Stratton filed it in the House.

So it is bipartisan.

And the wire services thus far are running, our guys are actually getting more copy on the wires.

Now, that doesn't mean the press will do it that way, but they're getting actually more copy than the Democrats.

Well, I think they're

I think they're not having too much success yet in trying to stir up demonstrations across the country either.

Well, they're really not.

And when you come down to it, it's spring and everything, and they should have thousands out there.

They haven't done that much yet.

Well, Friday is the day they're targeting for, but Hallett's reports to me are that he's checked a lot of campuses.

They're really not stirred up.

They know the point that

We just keep hammering, invasion, invasion.

Stennis did it very well in the Today Show.

Oh, he did it beautifully.

He said, we didn't bomb them, but the president always said that if they crossed the DMZ and invaded, we'd have to react.

And we have, and we're going to continue to.

And Laird's stuff has played...

better than I thought it would, actually, in the coverage of it.

Yes, and Rogers is continuing to meet with people, which is good.

He was up there this morning as a result of Rogers' briefing.

And by the way, he got a standing ovation.

Not a standing ovation.

He got interrupted with applause this morning.

Where?

At the meeting that he had for all the House members.

Yeah.

Was that just Republicans or Republicans and Democrats?

That was Republicans and Democrats.

Right.

And he got interrupted how?

He got interrupted when he said that North Vietnam should be considered the aggressor.

And he received a good, strong round of applause as a result of his briefing this morning.

The Democratic caucus has been postponed until tomorrow.

And I think the reason it was postponed by Tip O'Neill, and I think the reason is he knew damn well he wouldn't have the votes to...

to get his end-of-war amendment through the Democratic caucus.

Now, if they lose that, that just takes all the steam out of them.

Well, on the other hand, an end-of-war amendment by the Democratic caucus split puts the Democratic Party in a hell of a bad position.

Yes, it does.

I'm not so worried about that.

Let them pass their damn resolution.

Well, I...

If they get it out of that floor, it'll never pass there.

Oh, hell no.

No, and... And a lot of Democrats will...

squeal like hell about it, too.

That's right.

Well, thus far, Mr. President... Is Stratton going to attempt in that caucus to get his resolution considered?

He's already offered it, and he... What are the Democrats saying?

Well, they're in a hell of a spot, because the Stratton resolution condemns North Vietnam.

And the two pending...

Items of business on the Democratic agenda is Tip O'Neill's amendment and Stratton's.

So they've got to step up to vote them.

And it's just delightful.

And, of course, Goldwater today was using it beautifully to say, well, come on, let's get the Democrats to criticize the aggressors.

But I think the thing that has made this one so different than others is the fact that, number one, our fellows are taking one line and sticking with it.

And they really are.

I talked to Bob Taft this morning, who's never been too strong on things, and he just...

He's personally fired up.

He said, God damn, it's sickening to listen to these people.

The aggressor is North Vietnam.

In other words, the North Vietnamese communist enemy are the aggressors, and all we're doing is starting to fight aggression, and they're on the side of the communists.

You know, putting them on the side of the enemy, on the side of the communist, Chuck, just keep hammering that.

Well, that's where Vassidis has got them.

They're all mad this morning calling for an investigation of the VFW's tax status now.

Are they?

Yeah.

For Christ's sake.

We'll control that.

But this hurts them, you see.

Well, he's a Democrat.

Sure.

But it really sticks it into them because they... And I think they...

These fellows are all politicians, and they read their mail, and they talk to people back home, and I think they know this time.

Unlike prior times, we really do have... We may have more of the people on our side than they think.

Yes, sir.

You can't tell.

You never know.

I mean, all these, you know, things that are chucked here, the type of...

public right you're getting on don't mean much and and we're not but we're not going to be deflected by polls or anything else we're just going to go right ahead well you're because we're on the right side you're absolutely right on that mr president but i i've spent 20 years sort of feeling the political pulse of the guy and i can tell you right now that it's it's with us and

You think it is?

Yes, sir.

I'm positive.

I saw where the mayor, Bob told me, of Alexandria, Louisiana, changed his... That's great.

Over this issue.

Did it get a play?

It got a good play, and I... Over this issue.

Yes, sir, and I've got you sending him a letter, so it's... Oh, of course, a letter.

Absolutely.

I'm thanking him for it, because he's doing it for America.

Reagan has come out strong.

Yes, and we have one from Rockefeller, but I haven't seen it on the wires yet.

We did get one out from him.

Fitz I talked to, and he's raring to go.

I wrote a statement for him, and I just sent it over, so...

I'm sure he'll use it.

All of our... Meany is retaining his silence.

Yes, and I...

It's a mistake on his part.

And, boy, I mean, if he wants to...

You know, he should always be strong on this issue.

That's the one thing that he's considered as a patriot.

That's right.

But he's just going to be lowering his snakes, but particularly if Fitz moves.

Well, that's the point I used with Fitz, and that's what gets Fitz really excited.

I wish you could get Brennan to say something.

Oh, Brennan is.

Brennan told Cashin last night that he was writing it.

Good.

calling them all commies.

He said, I'll call all those senators commies.

That's what they are.

He's tough.

One thing we've got going is a lot of momentum.

I think that... You really think so?

Yes, sir.

The Rogers, Laird, one-two punch.

Yeah, which was just... We didn't plan it that way, but the Senate called them that way.

It just worked beautifully, and the coverage, I think, was excellent.

Laird got a hell of a lot more last night than I would have thought, and good coverage.

Yeah.

And he was firm, and the fellows on the Hill, the...

The playback from all the press reports that you read on the television, the doves aren't making the impact that they might, and our fellows are meeting them blow for blow.

They're fighting them.

That's great.

Well, you know, Chuck, as a matter of fact, this kind of thing is good for us.

I think it is.

You realize that the idea that I've seen in some of these political columns, Evan Novak and others, I understand it,

writing that the president's terribly distressed because he was hoping to keep Vietnam on the back burner.

Listen, whenever you have a crisis and handle it properly, that's a plus.

That's right.

It's leadership.

Don't you agree?

Absolutely.

And the story that has been getting out, Mr. President, of you being so cool and the politics be damned.

Is that getting out, the politics be damned?

Yes.

And that's been a no.

I've seen it now in

Three or four stories turn up and we're going to continue to push it.

It's marvelous because it does kind of, it's just what we need with the country.

To have you cool and confident in a

and not creating a crisis, but just handling it very well and saying, the hell with the politics, we're going to do the right thing for the country.

I think it's a plus.

And for the cause of peace.

That's right.

Well, don't be too worried about whatever happens this afternoon on ITT.

The goddamn thing has just dragged on this long, and he gives us a bunch, so he does.

Well, the Flanagan ploy was a good one.

I think it was.

I'm happy with the way that's worked out.

We're off that wicket, at least.

We have offered him, and their squealing that we don't offer others becomes patently partisan.

That's right.

On the other hand, on the Gleason thing, as I said, don't be too worried about it.

I mean, our guys should adjourn the damn hearing at 5 o'clock, though.

Well, they're primed for that.

And Gillenwater and the rest, they really ought to hammer him hard.

They've got a whole line of questioning.

We've loaded them up, and Rusker...

On this, well, as you hear Dillonwater and Reinecker, you know that they're to talk a long time, too.

They're aware of the situation.

We'll stay with that one.

All right.

Good luck.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Nixon phone call with Colson on ITT hearings and Vietnam War

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Also recorded on April 19, 1972

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Nixon phone call with Colson on ITT hearings and Vietnam War

AI Summary

Audio

NARA Description

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Transcript (AI-generated)

Also recorded on April 19, 1972

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Cite this conversation