{"conversationCode":"023-037","tapeNumber":23,"conversationNumber":37,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-023-037","startDateTime":"1972-04-19T19:17:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-04-19T19:18:00.000Z","startDate":"19-Apr-1972","startTime":"2:17 PM","endDate":"19-Apr-1972","endTime":"2:18 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On April 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 2:17 pm to 2:18 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 023-037 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 23-37\n\nDate: April 19, 1972\nTime: 2:17-2:18 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 331-32]\n\f     Vietnam\n          -Bombing\n              -Objections of Ivy League presidents\n                   -North Vietnamese actions\n                   -Ziegler's conversation with Charles W. Colson\n                         -Barry M. Goldwater","filename":["023-037.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"023-036","nextCode":"023-038","transcript":[{"start":0.84,"end":1.8,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":1.82,"end":2.14,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":2.7,"end":8.99,"text":"I thought of a good line to handle this, and it may be worth your doing it, is just to say, well, gentlemen, that really isn't news."},{"start":9.45,"end":16.76,"text":"What would be news is if the presidents of these universities, instead of condemning the United States, condemned the enemy of the United States."},{"start":17.7,"end":18.72,"text":"What would be news?"},{"start":18.74,"end":22.87,"text":"And that would be certainly like a man biting a dog."},{"start":23.89,"end":24.77,"text":"A man biting dog."},{"start":24.93,"end":25.85,"text":"Right."},{"start":25.87,"end":26.82,"text":"I think it's worth saying."},{"start":27.59,"end":32.04,"text":"I was just talking to Chuck when you called back, and his instinct was what mine was."},{"start":32.08,"end":32.78,"text":"To leave it alone?"},{"start":32.96,"end":38.17,"text":"Leave it alone, because it would, you know... Give him that quote for somebody."},{"start":38.26,"end":38.52,"text":"I will."},{"start":38.54,"end":40.1,"text":"Put it out from the hill or something."},{"start":40.14,"end":42.33,"text":"Have somebody up there, like Goldwater or something."},{"start":42.35,"end":42.77,"text":"That's right."},{"start":42.89,"end":43.51,"text":"All right."},{"start":43.53,"end":44.01,"text":"Right, yes, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler strategize on how to counter criticism from Ivy League university presidents regarding the recent U.S. bombing campaign in Vietnam. Nixon suggests a biting public retort emphasizing that university leadership should condemn the enemy rather than the United States. They ultimately decide against a direct White House statement, opting instead to have a political ally like Senator Barry Goldwater deliver the line to deflect attention and maintain a strategic distance.","topics":["Vietnam War","Public Relations","University Protests","Bombing Campaign","Barry Goldwater","Strategic Messaging"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T02:35:02.251Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","public-relations","university-protests","bombing-campaign","barry-goldwater","strategic-messaging"],"audioDurationSec":46,"audioFiles":[{"file":"023-037.mp3","bytes":1099022,"durationSec":45.72,"bitrate":192307,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:27.522Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/023-037.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/023-037","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/23/conversation-023-037","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}