Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 23 › Conversation 023-046

Nixon phone call with Colson on ITT case and Vietnam War

Wednesday, April 19, 1972 · 8:49 PM–9:03 PM ET · White House Telephone · 13 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.Conversation023-046 on Tape 23StartWednesday, April 19, 1972 at 8:49 PMEndWednesday, April 19, 1972 at 9:03 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 023-046 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss political strategy, focusing on upcoming testimony by Peter M. Flanigan regarding the ITT case and the administration's plan to frame Democratic candidates as being disloyal and supportive of the enemy regarding the Vietnam War. They review the morale-boosting effects of recent bombing campaigns in Vietnam and critique the effectiveness of various economic spokespeople. The conversation emphasizes the need for the administration to aggressively push these narratives to shift public opinion and gain support from labor groups.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 7 minutes of this recording (about 50% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Well, I guess the boy's off, huh?
He's getting out very well.
We'll get rid of him, and I can call him back tomorrow.
We've got a few scary moments.
We've got to get him back.
We've got to get him back.
We've got to get him back.
Nobody knows Dean Johnson.
Well, basically, too, he didn't solicit a corporation.
Yeah.
So he said no.
Well, fine.
That's right.
Well, after that, after Flanagan finishes, they haven't got much of a choice but we can send his name back.
Yeah.
Well, without him, you could still get it.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
Very good.
We should all prepare.
Everybody should prepare to begin to hammer that line, too.
Don't call me.
It's witch hunt.
No, let's go, go, go.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Oh, he's...
Oh, the bastards, yeah.
Yeah, too bad.
That's all right.
He's good in the economic part, too.
Were they?
Well, they feel mad about the, you know, did they get the disloyalty thing in of the Democrats, you know, basically the Democratic candidates?
They ought to, you know, that idea.
When are they going to start speaking up for the United States instead of for the enemy of the United States?
Good.
Yeah.
And surrender.
Yeah.
Good.
You see, just two things.
The Democrats are for the Communists.
The Democratic candidates are for the Communists, and they are for the enemy.
The Communists and the enemy.
That really kills them.
Good.
Good.
Yeah, they squealed.
Of course, the lefties were trying to play up the college professors.
I don't know.
I think people are a little tired of that, but I don't know.
They've made it.
Agnew may top on Friday.
Did he?
Did he hit the... That doesn't need to be.
We don't want to...
Good.
That's a good statement.
That's right.
That's right.
I got the point.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, that'll just put some labor guys on our side.
Building trades and other...
Yeah.
Well, you know, some of these people on the other side may begin to see that they're on the side of the enemy.
They don't like that.
That they're on the side of the communists.
They don't like that.
The enemy and communists, those are the two words that really kill them.
Now, God damn it, it's dangerous business for them to be on that side.
Against Americans...
defending America, you know?
What do you think?
Right.
Well, at least it's good to tomorrow.
Well, Flanagan, I'm not worried about him.
He'll go in there.
He'll be a good witness.
He's an honest guy.
And he's painted this horrible picture of him.
He'll look so much better than the goddamn president.
That's that.
Right.
He's an honest man.
That's right.
That's right.
He'll be a good witness.
Very believable.
They're going to have a hell of a time.
I'm glad we've done it.
I think it has.
People are a little tired of it, don't you think?
And the networks know this.
They don't play stuff much as they hate it, you know.
The reason they aren't playing the environment now is that people don't give a shit about the environment.
Isn't that it?
That's right.
They're playing the environment when they thought people cared.
Now that they know people don't care, they don't care.
They don't care about any of these things.
That's right.
That's right.
Well,
Well, I just had the long session to take.
You know, he used to be, of course, very cold-blooded about it, but he said, boy, we're going to be very proud of you.
And he said to me, he said to me, the Hanoi iPhone strike had an enormous effect on the building morale of the Americans, and the South was amazed, and, of course, the ties were threatened.
So, that's the point.
Well, it makes you think that, my God, we're not just going to take it.
Well, these people sent thousands across the beach.
Lee and I had settled in over 10 if they came across the strike back city.
I think that's just striking.
That's good.
Good.
Well, I'll keep, uh, I guess, go back.
It'd be less than six percent.
Sixteen.
Yeah, well then it'll only give.
What the hell?
People were screaming while we jobbed them.
April will be better.
Might be a good job.
Two times or three?
Three times.
We could survive.
Because three is half of what it was last.
Go.
Well, that's good.
That's good.
You know, we've got, as I was saying to you earlier, Whitman, Stein, Solomon.
We've got three good spokesmen.
Before, we had one good one, Stein, and two very poor ones, McCracken and Hawkeye.
They were disasters.
Always.
Every time they went on, they killed us.
Wonderful man.
But he just killed us.
He just couldn't fuck people out without saying...
Well, it's this way, but it's the other way.
Good.
Okay.
Well, fine, fine.
We're going to have a good night's sleep tonight, aren't we?
Okay.
Good.

NARA Description

On April 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 8:49 pm to 9:03 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 023-046 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 23-46

Date: April 19, 1972
Time: 8:49-9:03 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

     International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
           -Testimony
                 -Outcome
                       -James O. Eastland's ruling
                 -Questions for John N. Mitchell
                 -Corporate contributions
                       -Unknown person's answer
                 -Peter M. Flanigan
                       -A vote
                            -Charles McC. Mathias, Jr.
           -Administration line
                 -Publicity
                 -Lyndon K. (“Mort”) Allin
           -Hearings
                 -John B. Connally
                 -Outcome

     Vietnam
          -Barry M. Goldwater
          -Democrats
               -Charges of disloyalty
                    -Aid to enemy
               -Defeatism
               -Candidates
                    -Support of enemy
         -Colleges and universities
              -Dissidence
                    -Public disapproval
                          -Ronald L. Ziegler
                    -The Vice President
                          -Counterattack
                    -Charles H. Percy's statement
         -The President's policies
              -Critics
                    -The Vice President's attacks
              -Labor support
                    -Building trades
              -Critics
                    -Support for communists and the enemy
                          -Charges
                          -Political liabilities

    ITT case
         -Flanigan testimony
               -Likely outcome
               -Flanigan
         -Public indifference
               -News coverage of case
                     -Decline

    Vietnam
         -South Vietnam
              -Performance
                    -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s assessment
         -Bombing
              -Impact on morale of South Vietnamese and Thais
              -Impact on North Vietnam
         -The Vice President

    Economy
        -Prices
              -Consumer Price Index [CPI]
              -Jawboning
              -April figures
              -Inflation rate
        -Spokesmen
              -Marina von N. Whitman, Herbert Stein and Ezra Solomon
              -Stein, Paul W. McCracken and Hendrik S. Houthakker
                    -Lack of public relations sense

Also recorded on April 20, 1972

  • 023-045 8:13 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:13 pm and 8:49 pm.
  • 714-001 8:37 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:37 am and 8:41 am.
  • 714-002 8:41 AM · 53 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), Rose Mary Woods, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:41 am and 9:38 am.
  • 714-003 9:27 AM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:27 am and 9:38 am.
  • 714-004 9:38 AM · 1 hr 27 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John B. Connally, unknown person(s), and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:38 am to 11:06 am.
  • 714-005 11:06 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:06 am to 11:08 am.
  • 099-001 11:08 AM · 27 min — President Richard M. Nixon and members of the President's Panel on Nonpublic Education, including Clarence Walton, Rev. William E. McManus, Ivan E. Zylstra, Dr. Sidney P. Marland, Jr., Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Norman Karsh, Lewis A Engman, and Roy D. Morey, met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 11:08 am and 11:59 pm.
  • 714-006 11:08 AM · 1 min — Rose Mary Woods and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:08 am and 11:39 am.

All 56 conversations from April 20, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 023-046, April 20, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/023-046 (accessed October 12, 2026).