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Conversation 023-046

TapeTape 23StartWednesday, April 19, 1972 at 8:49 PMEndWednesday, April 19, 1972 at 9:03 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.Recording deviceWhite House Telephone
AudioNARA Description

On April 19, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson talked on the telephone from 8:49 pm to 9:03 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 023-046 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 23-46

Date: April 19, 1972
Time: 8:49-9:03 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Charles W. Colson.

     International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT] case
           -Testimony
                 -Outcome
                       -James O. Eastland's ruling
                 -Questions for John N. Mitchell
                 -Corporate contributions
                       -Unknown person's answer
                 -Peter M. Flanigan
                       -A vote
                            -Charles McC. Mathias, Jr.
           -Administration line
                 -Publicity
                 -Lyndon K. (“Mort”) Allin
           -Hearings
                 -John B. Connally
                 -Outcome

     Vietnam
          -Barry M. Goldwater
          -Democrats
               -Charges of disloyalty
                    -Aid to enemy
               -Defeatism
               -Candidates
                    -Support of enemy
         -Colleges and universities
              -Dissidence
                    -Public disapproval
                          -Ronald L. Ziegler
                    -The Vice President
                          -Counterattack
                    -Charles H. Percy's statement
         -The President's policies
              -Critics
                    -The Vice President's attacks
              -Labor support
                    -Building trades
              -Critics
                    -Support for communists and the enemy
                          -Charges
                          -Political liabilities

    ITT case
         -Flanigan testimony
               -Likely outcome
               -Flanigan
         -Public indifference
               -News coverage of case
                     -Decline

    Vietnam
         -South Vietnam
              -Performance
                    -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.’s assessment
         -Bombing
              -Impact on morale of South Vietnamese and Thais
              -Impact on North Vietnam
         -The Vice President

    Economy
        -Prices
              -Consumer Price Index [CPI]
              -Jawboning
              -April figures
              -Inflation rate
        -Spokesmen
              -Marina von N. Whitman, Herbert Stein and Ezra Solomon
              -Stein, Paul W. McCracken and Hendrik S. Houthakker
                    -Lack of public relations sense
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, I guess the boy's off, huh?
He's getting out very well.
We'll get rid of him, and I can call him back tomorrow.
We've got a few scary moments.
We've got to get him back.
We've got to get him back.
We've got to get him back.
Nobody knows Dean Johnson.
Well, basically, too, he didn't solicit a corporation.
Yeah.
So he said no.
Well, fine.
That's right.
Well, after that, after Flanagan finishes, they haven't got much of a choice but we can send his name back.
Yeah.
Well, without him, you could still get it.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
Very good.
We should all prepare.
Everybody should prepare to begin to hammer that line, too.
Don't call me.
It's witch hunt.
No, let's go, go, go.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Good.
Oh, he's...
Oh, the bastards, yeah.
Yeah, too bad.
That's all right.
He's good in the economic part, too.
Were they?
Well, they feel mad about the, you know, did they get the disloyalty thing in of the Democrats, you know, basically the Democratic candidates?
They ought to, you know, that idea.
When are they going to start speaking up for the United States instead of for the enemy of the United States?
Good.
Yeah.
And surrender.
Yeah.
Good.
You see, just two things.
The Democrats are for the Communists.
The Democratic candidates are for the Communists, and they are for the enemy.
The Communists and the enemy.
That really kills them.
Good.
Good.
Yeah, they squealed.
Of course, the lefties were trying to play up the college professors.
I don't know.
I think people are a little tired of that, but I don't know.
They've made it.
Agnew may top on Friday.
Did he?
Did he hit the... That doesn't need to be.
We don't want to...
Good.
That's a good statement.
That's right.
That's right.
I got the point.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, that'll just put some labor guys on our side.
Building trades and other...
Yeah.
Well, you know, some of these people on the other side may begin to see that they're on the side of the enemy.
They don't like that.
That they're on the side of the communists.
They don't like that.
The enemy and communists, those are the two words that really kill them.
Now, God damn it, it's dangerous business for them to be on that side.
Against Americans...
defending America, you know?
What do you think?
Right.
Well, at least it's good to tomorrow.
Well, Flanagan, I'm not worried about him.
He'll go in there.
He'll be a good witness.
He's an honest guy.
And he's painted this horrible picture of him.
He'll look so much better than the goddamn president.
That's that.
Right.
He's an honest man.
That's right.
That's right.
He'll be a good witness.
Very believable.
They're going to have a hell of a time.
I'm glad we've done it.
I think it has.
People are a little tired of it, don't you think?
And the networks know this.
They don't play stuff much as they hate it, you know.
The reason they aren't playing the environment now is that people don't give a shit about the environment.
Isn't that it?
That's right.
They're playing the environment when they thought people cared.
Now that they know people don't care, they don't care.
They don't care about any of these things.
That's right.
That's right.
Well,
Well, I just had the long session to take.
You know, he used to be, of course, very cold-blooded about it, but he said, boy, we're going to be very proud of you.
And he said to me, he said to me, the Hanoi iPhone strike had an enormous effect on the building morale of the Americans, and the South was amazed, and, of course, the ties were threatened.
So, that's the point.
Well, it makes you think that, my God, we're not just going to take it.
Well, these people sent thousands across the beach.
Lee and I had settled in over 10 if they came across the strike back city.
I think that's just striking.
That's good.
Good.
Well, I'll keep, uh, I guess, go back.
It'd be less than six percent.
Sixteen.
Yeah, well then it'll only give.
What the hell?
People were screaming while we jobbed them.
April will be better.
Might be a good job.
Two times or three?
Three times.
We could survive.
Because three is half of what it was last.
Go.
Well, that's good.
That's good.
You know, we've got, as I was saying to you earlier, Whitman, Stein, Solomon.
We've got three good spokesmen.
Before, we had one good one, Stein, and two very poor ones, McCracken and Hawkeye.
They were disasters.
Always.
Every time they went on, they killed us.
Wonderful man.
But he just killed us.
He just couldn't fuck people out without saying...
Well, it's this way, but it's the other way.
Good.
Okay.
Well, fine, fine.
We're going to have a good night's sleep tonight, aren't we?
Okay.
Good.
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