{"conversationCode":"023-075","tapeNumber":23,"conversationNumber":75,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-023-075","startDateTime":"1972-04-25T21:43:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-04-25T21:45:00.000Z","startDate":"25-Apr-1972","startTime":"4:43 PM","endDate":"25-Apr-1972","endTime":"4:45 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On April 25, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler talked on the telephone from 4:43 pm to 4:45 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 023-075 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 23-75\n\nDate: April 25, 1972\nTime: 4:43-4:45 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 334-7A]\n\n     Press conference\n           -Announcement\n                -Questions\n                -Henry A. Kissinger's meeting in Moscow\n                      -Secrecy\n                            -Press reaction\n                -Press reaction\n\n     Vietnam\n          -Troop levels\n               -The President's decision\n               -Meetings with senior advisors\n                     -Kissinger's trip\n               -The President's decision\n               -The President's speech\n                     -Contents\n\n     Congressional Dinner\n         -Press\n               -Ziegler's briefing\n                    -National Security Council [NSC]","filename":["023-075.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"023-074","nextCode":"023-076","transcript":[{"start":0.77,"end":3.02,"text":"Mr. President, Mr. Ziegler, return."},{"start":3.04,"end":3.14,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":4.8,"end":5.12,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":5.6,"end":6.28,"text":"How'd you get along?"},{"start":7.02,"end":8.82,"text":"Well, fine."},{"start":9.46,"end":10.8,"text":"I made the announcement and so forth."},{"start":11.71,"end":14.87,"text":"Then we had the little in-house thing on credibility that I thought we had."},{"start":14.89,"end":15.95,"text":"I hope you hit that hard, though."},{"start":16.01,"end":16.53,"text":"Yes, I did."},{"start":16.55,"end":16.93,"text":"I did."},{"start":16.95,"end":18.81,"text":"I said, look, gentlemen, it boils down to this."},{"start":19.86,"end":26.12,"text":"I said, we either announced he was in Moscow or the president made the decision to go ahead with what he considered to be an important secret meeting."},{"start":26.14,"end":27.3,"text":"That's as simple as it is."},{"start":27.77,"end":30,"text":"And you then went through all the points."},{"start":30.06,"end":34.16,"text":"I said the president believes seeking peace is about most important."},{"start":34.4,"end":36.41,"text":"Yeah, but it's only in-house."},{"start":36.45,"end":38.83,"text":"These assholes were just pissed off they didn't work there."},{"start":39.01,"end":39.11,"text":"Sure."},{"start":39.13,"end":41.18,"text":"Well, why don't they watch him more closely?"},{"start":41.76,"end":42.64,"text":"Okay."},{"start":45.02,"end":46.7,"text":"They're pretty shaken up by this announcement."},{"start":46.73,"end":47.33,"text":"Oh, yes, sure they are."},{"start":47.95,"end":48.49,"text":"Yes, they are."},{"start":48.89,"end":49.11,"text":"Good."},{"start":49.59,"end":52.73,"text":"Now, I left a lot of doubt in their mind, too, on the..."},{"start":53.24,"end":68.87,"text":"troop level thing oh yeah they said well is that uh did you choose those words carefully and i said yes i did yeah i said you'll have to wait until tomorrow night to find out what the president's decision is and then i made the point about consultation and concurrence with the senior advisors and"},{"start":68.85,"end":77.94,"text":"So for what they said, they asked whether or not you waited until Henry got back to make your decision on what the troop levels would be."},{"start":77.96,"end":80.67,"text":"Was that connected with Henry's trip there?"},{"start":81.13,"end":85.02,"text":"And I had discussed that with Henry, and I made the point that your decision on troop levels"},{"start":85.77,"end":88.1,"text":"It was not related to his trip to the Soviet Union."},{"start":88.12,"end":89.04,"text":"That's right."},{"start":90.3,"end":98.05,"text":"But then they said, would you go beyond tomorrow night, the discussion of troop levels and the general military situation assessments of Vietnam?"},{"start":98.07,"end":103.98,"text":"I said, well, this is what the president told me he was going to say, and he's still working on his remarks, and I can't help you beyond that."},{"start":104.5,"end":104.7,"text":"Right."},{"start":105.64,"end":105.84,"text":"Good."},{"start":105.86,"end":107.71,"text":"So we just held in their firm."},{"start":107.75,"end":110.03,"text":"How are you going to handle the thing tonight?"},{"start":111.01,"end":111.47,"text":"No press."},{"start":112.31,"end":113.86,"text":"Or you're just going to put out an announcement?"},{"start":114.86,"end":115.91,"text":"On the dinner?"},{"start":116.31,"end":117.19,"text":"No, not the dinner."},{"start":117.29,"end":117.92,"text":"I don't care about that."},{"start":117.94,"end":118.24,"text":"Oh, yeah."},{"start":118.28,"end":119.14,"text":"No, I'm going to brief."},{"start":119.16,"end":120.26,"text":"We'll call them back in, see?"},{"start":120.41,"end":120.81,"text":"Good."},{"start":120.83,"end":121.41,"text":"All right."},{"start":121.43,"end":121.73,"text":"Fine."},{"start":122.37,"end":125.6,"text":"I'll talk to you about that when I get my material from NSC."},{"start":125.68,"end":125.9,"text":"Fine."},{"start":125.92,"end":126.65,"text":"Okay, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald L. Ziegler discuss the administration's strategy for managing press inquiries regarding Henry Kissinger's secret mission to Moscow and upcoming decisions on Vietnam troop levels. Ziegler reports on his efforts to deflect media criticism by emphasizing the importance of diplomatic secrecy and clarifies that the President's troop level decisions were made independently of Kissinger's trip. The two finalize plans for Ziegler to conduct further press briefings once he receives additional materials from the National Security Council.","topics":["Henry Kissinger","Moscow","Vietnam troop levels","Press relations","National Security Council","Diplomatic secrecy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T02:38:32.525Z"},"topicSlugs":["henry-kissinger","moscow","vietnam-troop-levels","press-relations","national-security-council","diplomatic-secrecy"],"audioDurationSec":128,"audioFiles":[{"file":"023-075.mp3","bytes":3065729,"durationSec":127.67,"bitrate":192098,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:27.522Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/023-075.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/023-075","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/23/conversation-023-075","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}