Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 23 › Conversation 023-090

Nixon phone call with Kissinger on Arms Control and US-Soviet Relations

Wednesday, April 26, 1972 · 7:07 PM–7:10 PM ET · White House Telephone · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.Conversation023-090 on Tape 23StartWednesday, April 26, 1972 at 7:07 PMEndWednesday, April 26, 1972 at 7:10 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 023-090 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discuss internal administrative friction regarding ongoing arms control negotiations with the Soviet Union, specifically targeting the obstructionist behavior of Gerard C. Smith. Kissinger reports that Smith is attempting to undermine the inclusion of submarine provisions in the potential treaty, a move the Joint Chiefs of Staff strongly oppose. Nixon and Kissinger affirm their decision to proceed with a public statement on the progress of these negotiations to ensure they receive credit and to prevent the Soviets from controlling the narrative via leaks.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

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i have mr kissinger for you yeah president sir yeah how'd you get along with jerry uh oh uh i got a lot i called him finally and i said uh and rogers decided not to come after yeah well particularly rogers knows we're going to see monday too right right that's i put it on that basis well jerry didn't even pretend that he had done anything remotely like this i see so he started pissing on some of the technical provisions oh my on you know
50 nitpicking details i had an assistant present who said he couldn't believe his ears uh what do you think he was doing it for because the james rogers did with the berlin thing because he hadn't done it but i'll get it straight and then of course he said you shouldn't make a public statement that you had done it because that would nail you to it and then it would remove it would put a lot of pressure under you
But...
I see.
But that's all nonsense, Mr. President.
You should make the statement.
It's all arranged, and everyone will...
I talked to Moura this morning, who thinks it's tremendous.
Yeah.
Well, I think really the problem is that the internal jealousies and so forth, but to hell, Smith is going to get a
Mr. President, A, he didn't do anything.
Secondly, he isn't running for election.
Thirdly, he didn't take the heat on the farming and everything else.
Fourthly, he's been nothing but trouble since he got there.
Yeah, he hasn't.
We've tried to get the little snit-wing son of a bitch to do things, and you have to practically kick him in the ass, I know.
I mean, if you had done what he wanted, we would have caved in.
What does he want to do?
Does he want to blow the thing?
He wants to leave submarines out altogether.
Leave them out?
That's right, with the result that the Soviets would have twice as many as they would get under this agreement.
What's his argument for that, anyway?
I thought he wanted to put them in earlier.
It's like Rogers.
Of course, if they were left out, then he could make his agreement next week.
Oh, I see.
What do you mean, leave them out?
And then he'd make an agreement.
And then just do it with ABMs.
Oh, yeah.
An ABM-only agreement?
Oh, no.
ABM and land-based.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, well, the point is, if we can get submarines, I thought that that's what we all agreed we wanted.
That's what the Joint Chiefs want very badly.
That's right.
And we just tell it.
I'd scare him with the Joint Chiefs a little.
It's not worth your worrying about it, Mr. President.
I can handle him.
But isn't it really predictable, Henry?
It just shows what these sons of bitches, these loyal bastards.
That's right.
He just doesn't want us to get the credit on the thing.
That's the only thing.
And I think you would be really, totally wrong.
The Russians want us to put it out, don't they?
I have worked it out with Gromyko that you can step out there.
And you would be totally...
If you don't step out there, they will leak out in Helsinki that they got a hot new Russian proposal that would tie them in even more.
That's right.
Well, anyway, we've decided it, haven't we?
So that's that.
Okay?
Right.
All right, Henry, good luck.
Bye.

NARA Description

On April 26, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 7:07 pm to 7:10 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 023-090 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 23-90

Date: April 26, 1972
Time: 7:07-7:10 pm
Location: White House Telephone

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

[See also Conversation No. 333-38]

     US-Soviet relations
         -Negotiations
               -Gerard C. Smith
               -William P. Rogers
                      -Berlin Agreement
                      -The President's public statements
                            -Kissinger's conversation with Thomas H. Moorer
         -The President's speech
               -Smith
                      -Submarines
                            -Provision in treaty
                      -Anti-Ballistic Missiles [ABMs]
                      -Submarines
                            -Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS]
         -Negotiations
               -Internal disagreements
                -Andrei A. Gromyko
                     -Work with Kissinger

Also recorded on April 27, 1972

  • 333-038 7:07 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 7:07 pm to 7:10 pm.
  • 023-091 7:10 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:10 pm and 7:37 pm.
  • 333-039 7:10 PM · 11 min — President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 7:10 pm and 7:37 pm.
  • 333-040 7:10 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 7:10 pm and 7:37 pm.
  • 023-092 7:37 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 7:37 pm.
  • 023-093 7:37 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:37 pm and 8:20 pm.
  • 333-041 7:37 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 7:37 pm.
  • 333-042 7:37 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 7:37 pm and 8:20 pm.

All 13 conversations from April 27, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 023-090, April 27, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/023-090 (accessed October 12, 2026).