Conversation 023-133

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Yes sir, Mr. President.

But there's a funny thing happening around the country.

I'm not sure I quite understand it.

And the war issue has, in my opinion, has helped us.

And I can't quite put my finger on why.

Even though it isn't going very well.

Yeah, even though the combat reports are, I mean, this weekend the media really started to cream us.

Well, they were justified.

I mean, it isn't as bad as they say, but, you know, and it is, and incidentally, it's exactly what I predicted.

Yes, it is.

I have said over and over, I said, we're going to have some losses, and they're having a massive offensive.

I told the leader that this morning.

I said, you're going to have some more.

They're going to go for three or four more weeks.

Yeah, they came out this morning and said just that, and they did it very well, Ford and Griffin, saying that this is what was predicted, and what the hell, 43 provincial capitals.

And no one has ever thought this would be easy.

You're going to lose some.

Sure.

The South Vietnamese did better in the first month than was expected.

But there's a funny thing happening around the country.

Bradshaw called me this morning, and he said that Daly, who had spoken last week, was with him this morning and mentioned the fact that he'd received a letter from you thanking him.

And he went out on the podium talking about transportation and railroads and

and devoted half his speech to you on what leadership you had given in this transportation field and how strong a president.

He said it was an extraordinary set of remarks to a large group.

Very interesting.

It is interesting because I think what you're finding, Mr. President, is that the old Democratic establishment, they really don't get very excited over Humphrey.

I mean, they'll live with him and they'll support him, but he's not going to turn them on.

And

I think they're beginning to get scared of McGovern.

I think there's just a feeling of that sitting in.

I also think it goes beyond that.

I think there's a feeling right now in the country that is sympathetic to you because of the Vietnam thing.

You have to realize one thing, of course.

Vietnam is unpredictable.

We think that we can hang on, but we'll see.

the other thing we have to bear in mind is that the uh soviet summit is in the balance that's right and frankly uh there's no under you can be damn sure i'm not going to go to moscow if these days and i think you would agree if i if i went to moscow while soviet tanks were rolling around in huawei i'll never do it no i i and i think on that point well the most uh most people would uh would say in the terrible we had to have that

Some of them had to get cancer.

It'll hurt us because they'll say, what happened to the generation of peace?

But on the other hand, we simply can't take this from these people.

Well, but you see, Mr. President, Holden asked me my opinion on this yesterday, and I said flatly I would not go under any circumstances.

I mean, I'd postpone it indefinitely and try to go later.

I'd upstage him in July if you could, and if circumstances warrant it.

No, I think your position is wrong, because what is coming through to people, and this is what has been evident in the poll data, is that they believe you and they think you're doing everything humanly possible, and you really are trying very hard.

And the generation of peace, but not peace at any price, is, you know, and getting a generation of peace is going to be ups and downs.

It is hard work, sure.

And I think the country would rally behind you.

You know, the Democrats are...

incredibly silent on Vietnam right now.

It hasn't been a murmur from any prominent Democrat since last week.

When our boys went out on Thursday and mowed them down in the aisles, as they did in the hill, and since that day there hasn't been a word.

I think they're really scared of being hurt either way, either that you pull it out and then they look bad, or that it falls apart and they're blamed for it.

Yeah.

No, we're sure going to blame them for it.

Oh, hell, if there's any question about that.

But there has not been a statement.

I've combed the wires every day looking for it.

Now, the media have.

We've gotten little jabs here and there from Reasoner last night and this kind of stuff, which we're putting real counterpressures on.

We now have pretty good apparatus around the country working on this.

Well, we've got to expect the media have such a vested interest in our defeat that they're going to jab us anytime they can.

They will take any possible opportunity.

It's incredible.

I saw the day how they're saying, well, we didn't get 500,000 votes as we had hoped for in Indiana.

Well, there's anybody who ever said we expected 500,000 votes in Indiana.

Not a living soul.

And we're going to end up with a week.

Christ, we weren't even doing a damn thing in Indiana.

Well, that's totally unopposed.

No contest at all.

And you'll still have over 400,000, 450,000 before the... Are they trying to knock that?

Well, that's just a little press jab.

That was UPI, and we called them on it at 10 this morning, and they've taken it off the wires.

But it's not a problem.

I just mentioned it symbolically of how these bastards will...

We'll seize... We'll keep them going.

You know, one thing, while we're all sad about it, I think that we had one break this week on the law and order issue.

There's no better way for me to identify than to identify with my friend Hoover.

Exactly.

And I was the guy that stood by him when the staff wanted to fire him last fall.

Oh, Jesus, thank God you didn't.

I thought about it.

And I stood by him through thick and thin, and I defended him, and...

And now, by gosh, I think we're in a very good position there.

Don't you think so?

Yes, sir.

I think I'll tell you what it does, Mr. President.

It's never happy when anybody dies, but in terms of the politics of it, it gives us an opportunity to talk about the success that the FBI has had in the last three years under this administration, cutting down on organized crime.

I think one thing you can let your people leak out, as a matter of fact, you can give it to Scali and...

television, that Nixon was under very great pressure from members, some members of the White House staff, just, you know, a little after.

It's true.

To ask for his, because Hoover was coming under attack and knew that he was going to come under attack, to ask his resignation.

And the President

refused to do so.

He said that he was, that he felt that Mr. Hoover could not, under any circumstances, go out under, I mean, be forced to resign under fire, and that's why he took the strong position he did in his press conferences and made a

point of being publicly seen with him.

That's right.

That point.

Get that across.

I remember the story you told me, Mr. President, one day in your office, I'll never forget it, in which you said the only mistake you made was letting someone talk you into dumping .

Sure.

He would never do it with Hoover.

You can say that, too.

Yeah, well, I think this is a good story to ride, not just in a column, but I mean... TV.

TV and a wire.

Yeah, I think we can give it to Scali.

I don't know how to push it out.

Or your other fellow.

Cawson.

Yeah, I'll get one of them to do it.

They're both...

It's a legitimate story.

They're both good at getting that out.

Cawson is...

By the way, of all our former pressmen around here, he's the one who's saying, let's go after the press.

The memo that I got, which is on this subject, which we're working very hard at this week, he's old.

I figured that it's about time for us to realize it.

Well, I think what we have to do is get them in some sophisticated ways.

That's right.

Don't use a blunt instrument.

No, I don't think the Vice President, for example, can do it.

But I think if he did it, it wouldn't have any impact.

But I think we can start putting the screws on them in some ways that will hurt and will just raise that cloud in the public's mind about their credibility.

That's the important thing.

Yeah, go ahead.

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