Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 24 › Conversation 024-019

Nixon phone call with Laird on Vietnam War and Mining of Harbors

Monday, May 8, 1972 · 9:57 PM–10:00 PM ET · White House Telephone · 3 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Laird, Melvin R.Conversation024-019 on Tape 24 (tape position 00:17:40–00:20:27)StartMonday, May 8, 1972 at 9:57 PMEndMonday, May 8, 1972 at 10:00 PMRecording deviceWhite House TelephoneSourceNixon Library record for 024-019 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird discuss the public and political reception of the recent escalation in Vietnam, specifically the mining of harbors and expansion of airstrikes. Nixon encourages Laird to adopt a more aggressive, "hawkish" public stance regarding the military operations to deter North Vietnam, rather than emphasizing what the blockade is not. Laird confirms the successful initial deployment of mines and reports that airstrikes against critical targets like railroads and petroleum, oil, and lubricant (POL) depots are underway, prompting Nixon to request that commendations be sent to the forces involved.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello.
Secretary Laird calling Mr. President.
Hello.
Mr. President.
Well, I knew why you weren't there.
I knew you were doing more important things, working with the congressmen.
Well, I went with them, and then I came back over here, Mr. President, because I had to get out some messages to them.
Good, good, good.
But I did stay with them until they all left.
I appreciate it very much.
But, gee, you did a fine job tonight, though.
Well, let me say that I know this is a tough one, and, you know, as I told the cabinet, we could call it either way.
But let me tell you that...
The thing here, because one thing about it that, you know, you can scare a few people.
Bill at the Cabinet meeting was saying that, look, fellas, this is not a blockade.
I think you ought to take a little different line.
I'd say we're going to do what is necessary.
You know what I mean?
Yes.
I don't want to indicate what the hell it isn't.
You see what I mean?
I will.
Now, incidentally, on the other hand, Mansfield raises the point about
How near do we get to China?
Now, obviously, we're not going to jeopardize the Chinese relationship,
but we'll simply say that this is not directed against any other country we'll take the necessary precautions but we'll do what's necessary to stop the flow see yes but but i think the more if you could be if i could urge you to be a little more hawkish even than i am i wouldn't say that you're urging the president you know and uh that'll help us a hell of a lot and uh also get all your people over there at defense particularly intelligence people to you know to say well
You see, we may trigger something here.
You never know.
You never know.
You know, they got in there in good shape.
Did they?
They got in and got the mines and every plane.
Was it done?
Great.
All of the planes are back aboard the carrier.
Every one of them, they knocked down a MiG in the process.
Right.
Would you send Mel a well done from me to them, please?
I will.
And say the president asked to send, I don't know who you'd send it to.
Who do you send it to, McCain?
Well, I think probably I'd send it to Admiral Mack.
He's in charge.
Mack.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
We want to get him down there, you know, with the other people.
All right, you send a well done, say, just say, from Secretary Laird to them, just talk to the president on the phone.
He says, well done, keep it up.
Okay?
I will.
The other thing is that I was saying to Moore today, tonight, that I want to be sure you know about it.
I think, Mel, on our airstrikes now, we ought to do, we ought to pick the target and do it.
In addition to the railroads, I think the other thing should be P-O-L, P-O-L, P-O-L. You see what I mean?
Well, we're doing that right now, and that's what I'm going over right now, Mr. President.
Because if you get the P-O-L, they can't run those damn trucks.
Well, we're doing that right now, Mr. President.
Right.
Okay.
Well, thank you a lot.
Well, thank you, Mr. President, and I think you did a fine job.
Well, you did it well.
Stick your old chin out there and give them hell.
I will.
Scare them.
Okay.

NARA Description

On May 8, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Melvin R. Laird talked on the telephone from 9:57 pm to 10:00 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 024-019 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 24-19

Date: May 8, 1972
Time: 9:57 pm - 10:00 pm
Location: White House Telephone

Melvin R. Laird talked with the President.

[See also Conversation No. 336-69C]

     Vietnam
          -Laird
                -Work with congressmen
          -The President's announcement
                -Difficulty
                -Cabinet meeting
          -Blockade
                -William P. Rogers
                -Laird's explanation
                -Michael J. Mansfield
                      -Questions regarding People's Republic of China [PRC]
                -Laird's public stance
                      -The President’s view
                      -Department of Defense intelligence
                -Placement of mines
                      -Message to pilots
                            -John S. McCain
          -Air strikes
                -Thomas H. Moorer
                -Targets
                      -Railroads
                      -Petroleum, oil, and lubricants [POL]
          -The President's announcement
                -Laird’s view

Also recorded on May 9, 1972

  • 101-004 9:44 PM · 1 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 9:44 pm on May 8, 1972 and 11:03 am on May 16, 1972.
  • 101-006 9:44 PM · 2 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 9:44 pm on May 8, 1972 and 11:03 am on May 16, 1972.
  • 101-008 9:44 PM · 2 min — a White House tour group met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 9:44 pm on May 8, 1972 and 11:03 am on May 16, 1972.
  • 024-018 9:45 PM · 28 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:45 pm and 9:57 pm.
  • 336-069 9:45 PM · 1 hr 15 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), Alexander P. Butterfield, Melvin R. Laird, White House operator, Julie Nixon Eisenhower, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, Charles G. ("Bebe") Rebozo, Charles W. Colson, [David] Kenneth Rush, Ronald L. Ziegler, George Meany, Edward R. F. Cox, William F. ("Billy") Graham, and Lawrence M. Higby met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:45 pm to 11:22 pm.
  • 024-020 10:00 PM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:00 pm and 10:04 pm.
  • 024-021 10:04 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Julie Nixon Eisenhower, and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 10:04 pm to 10:06 pm.
  • 024-022 10:23 PM · 9 sec — H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:23 pm and 10:42 pm.

All 96 conversations from May 9, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 024-019, May 9, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/024-019 (accessed October 17, 2026).