{"conversationCode":"024-026","tapeNumber":24,"conversationNumber":26,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-024-026","startDateTime":"1972-05-09T02:42:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-05-09T02:45:00.000Z","startDate":"8-May-1972","startTime":"10:42 PM","endDate":"8-May-1972","endTime":"10:45 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Rush, [David] Kenneth;","description":"On May 8, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and [David] Kenneth Rush talked on the telephone from 10:42 pm to 10:45 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 024-026 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 24-26\n\nDate: May 8, 1972\nTime: 10:42 pm - 10:45 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe President talked with [David] Kenneth Rush.\n\n[See also Conversation No. 336-69K]\n\n     Greetings\n\n     Vietnam\n          -Blockade\n               -The President's speech\n               -Rush's television appearance\n                    -President’s position\n                           -William P. Rogers\n                           -Cessation of seaborne deliveries to North Vietnam\n               -Implementation\n                    -Further action\n                    -Rush's statements\n                           -Peace offer\n                           -Cease-fire\n                           -Prisoners of war [POWs]\n                           -The President's Request for a call to Melvin R. Laird\n                           -Public stance\n\n     The President's party\n          -Rush\n               -Attendance\n               -Address to attendees","filename":["024-026.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:30:22","tapeEnd":"00:33:13","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Rush, [David] Kenneth"],"prevCode":"024-025","nextCode":"024-027","transcript":[{"start":0.64,"end":1.18,"text":"Hello?"},{"start":1.5,"end":2.5,"text":"Yes, Mr. President?"},{"start":2.9,"end":4.08,"text":"Yes, again, how are you?"},{"start":4.3,"end":5,"text":"Fine, thank you, sir."},{"start":5.14,"end":6.25,"text":"Your speech was wonderful."},{"start":6.95,"end":8.19,"text":"Well, you're very kind to say that."},{"start":8.21,"end":9.75,"text":"Let me say, you're going on in the morning."},{"start":10.07,"end":10.75,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":10.77,"end":13.47,"text":"And if I could give you just a couple of thoughts."},{"start":13.81,"end":14.23,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":16.1,"end":21.04,"text":"Bill Rogers, in talking to the Cabinet, was sort of saying this is not a blockade."},{"start":21.66,"end":23.53,"text":"Don't take that line."},{"start":23.57,"end":28.88,"text":"Take the line that, well, the words are not too important here."},{"start":29.44,"end":39.37,"text":"What it is is that the president is going to do whatever is necessary to stop all seaborne deliveries to South Vietnam, to North Vietnam."},{"start":39.61,"end":40.13,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":40.15,"end":41.01,"text":"And it will be done."},{"start":41.57,"end":42.29,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":42.31,"end":44.56,"text":"And we'll do whatever is necessary."},{"start":44.86,"end":44.94,"text":"Yes."},{"start":46.02,"end":46.74,"text":"Don't you agree?"},{"start":47.06,"end":50.98,"text":"I agree 100%, Mr. President, and that is exactly what I think you should do."},{"start":52.18,"end":52.62,"text":"Don't worry."},{"start":53.23,"end":58.35,"text":"Now that we've crossed the Rubicon, we're going to kick those bastards, and we're going to do even more, you know."},{"start":58.71,"end":59.39,"text":"Yes, I know."},{"start":59.63,"end":61.14,"text":"So take a very strong line."},{"start":61.18,"end":62.46,"text":"We're going to do what's necessary."},{"start":62.48,"end":67.05,"text":"The President is, you can say, you can use the term, the President has crossed the Rubicon, and now?"},{"start":67.78,"end":72.15,"text":"But also emphasize that we have made a forthcoming peace offer."},{"start":72.67,"end":72.89,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":73.37,"end":77.14,"text":"Which is unequivocal, and it's as far as we can go."},{"start":78,"end":86.23,"text":"A ceasefire, a return of our POWs, and then we withdraw all Americans for a month."},{"start":86.28,"end":87.38,"text":"Yes."},{"start":87.4,"end":87.7,"text":"Okay?"},{"start":88.02,"end":88.36,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":89.32,"end":91,"text":"I think I have that, Mr. President."},{"start":91.1,"end":91.76,"text":"I'll do my best."},{"start":92.53,"end":95.17,"text":"I'm in complete accord, as you know, with what you're doing."},{"start":95.27,"end":96.14,"text":"Well, I appreciate it."},{"start":96.2,"end":96.84,"text":"I appreciate it."},{"start":96.86,"end":98.34,"text":"It really was a great speech."},{"start":98.52,"end":100.83,"text":"I know it was great, but anyway, the main thing is that"},{"start":101.4,"end":103.86,"text":"You know, you're the strong man over there now, by God."},{"start":104.1,"end":106.19,"text":"I got Carl Laird, and I got him lined up."},{"start":106.25,"end":107.03,"text":"He's all right now."},{"start":107.25,"end":108.81,"text":"Well, I'm very pleased."},{"start":108.85,"end":109.75,"text":"He says he's going to..."},{"start":109.91,"end":112.72,"text":"I said, Mel, you've got to be more hawkish than I am, and he said he would be."},{"start":113.08,"end":113.98,"text":"Mel will do it now."},{"start":114.2,"end":115.32,"text":"Yeah, Mel's a..."},{"start":115.34,"end":117.81,"text":"He's the kind of a guy that waits, and then he does what's right."},{"start":118.2,"end":120.65,"text":"Once you tell him what to do, Mr. President, he will do it."},{"start":120.67,"end":123.63,"text":"When you talk to him in the morning, you say, boy, the President's counting on you."},{"start":123.65,"end":129.58,"text":"He's very pleased with his conversation with you, and Mel, by God, let's be more..."},{"start":129.87,"end":131.53,"text":"Right now, we've got to be ferocious."},{"start":132.05,"end":132.31,"text":"Right."},{"start":132.93,"end":133.44,"text":"All the way."},{"start":133.66,"end":134.02,"text":"Okay?"},{"start":134.14,"end":135.06,"text":"Yes, sir, Mr. President."},{"start":135.16,"end":135.4,"text":"All right."},{"start":135.42,"end":136.8,"text":"In the morning, kick them in the ass."},{"start":136.82,"end":137.5,"text":"I'll do my best."},{"start":137.77,"end":138.45,"text":"Oh, you will."},{"start":138.79,"end":140.29,"text":"Are you coming tomorrow night or not?"},{"start":140.39,"end":142.36,"text":"Yes, I'm looking forward to it very much."},{"start":142.38,"end":143.4,"text":"It'll be a nice little party."},{"start":143.42,"end":146.95,"text":"We're inviting all the lawyers in the administration."},{"start":146.93,"end":151.01,"text":"to sort of be there with these little kids."},{"start":151.03,"end":153.72,"text":"I remember the little kids, but you will remember most of them."},{"start":153.76,"end":154.8,"text":"They were your students."},{"start":154.82,"end":156.28,"text":"Yes, I remember that very well."},{"start":156.3,"end":162.39,"text":"I'll call on you for a couple of minutes to say a couple of words."},{"start":162.73,"end":163.17,"text":"Will you?"},{"start":163.19,"end":164.43,"text":"I'll be very pleased to."},{"start":165.01,"end":167.4,"text":"And I'm very happy you invited me."},{"start":167.52,"end":168.1,"text":"Okay, Mike."},{"start":168.12,"end":168.94,"text":"It'll be great to be there."},{"start":168.96,"end":173.89,"text":"So congratulations."},{"start":173.91,"end":174.87,"text":"George Meany, please."},{"start":175.27,"end":175.45,"text":"Yes, sir."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon instructed Kenneth Rush to adopt a firm public stance during his upcoming television appearance regarding the U.S. blockade of North Vietnam, explicitly rejecting the softer rhetoric suggested by Secretary of State William Rogers. Nixon emphasized that the administration's policy is to take whatever action is necessary to halt seaborne deliveries while maintaining a commitment to a forthcoming peace offer and POW return. Additionally, the President confirmed that he had aligned Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird with this hawkish strategy and invited Rush to speak at an upcoming administration event.","topics":["Vietnam War","Naval Blockade","Foreign Policy","Public Relations","Prisoners of War"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T02:49:31.332Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","naval-blockade","foreign-policy","public-relations","prisoners-of-war"],"audioDurationSec":177,"audioFiles":[{"file":"024-026.mp3","bytes":4255659,"durationSec":177.27,"bitrate":192056,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:27.839Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/024-026.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/024-026","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/24/conversation-024-026","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}