{"conversationCode":"024-109","tapeNumber":24,"conversationNumber":109,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-024-109","startDateTime":"1972-05-15T23:42:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-05-15T23:57:00.000Z","startDate":"15-May-1972","startTime":"7:42 PM","endDate":"15-May-1972","endTime":"7:57 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"White House operator; Colson, Charles W.; Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\"); Nixon, Richard M. (President); Felt, W. Mark;","description":"On May 15, 1972, the White House operator, Charles W. Colson, H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman, President Richard M. Nixon, and W. Mark Felt talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 7:42 pm and 7:57 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 024-109 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"WHT","recordingDevice":"White House Telephone","latitudeEstimated":38.89767,"longitudeEstimated":-77.03655,"chronCode":3,"chronRelease":"Third Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"28-Feb-2002","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 24-109\n\nDate: May 15, 1972\nTime: Unknown between 7:42 pm and 7:57 pm\nLocation: White House Telephone\n\nThe White House operator talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n     Call from W. Mark Felt\n\nColson conferred with the President and H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman at an unknown time.\n\n     Felt's call\n\n     Questions\n\n[End of conferral]\n\n     Felt's call\n\nFelt talked with Colson at an unknown time.\n\n     Colson's location\n\n     Attack on George C. Wallace\n          -Latest report\n               -Assailants\n\n                     -Number\n                     -Release\n                -Arthur H. Bremer\n                     -Name\n                     -Race\n                     -Sex\n                     -Residence\n                           -Source of information\n                     -Purchase of gun\n                           -Place\n                           -Caliber\n                     -Current location\n                           -Reason\n                     -Interrogation\n                           -Doctors\n                           -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]\n                     -Protection\n\nThe President and Haldeman conferred at an unknown time.\n\n     Secret Service\n\n[End of conferral]\n\n     Attack on Wallace\n          -Investigation\n               -FBI direction and control\n                      -Legal basis\n          -Secret Service agent\n               -Surgery\n               -Location\n               -Condition\n          -Bremer\n               -Interrogation\n                      -Time\n                      -Questions\n                           -Range\n\nColson conferred with the President and an unknown person at an unknown time.\n\n     [Unintelligible]\n\n     Edward M. Kennedy\n\n[End of conferral]\n\n     Attack on Wallace\n          -Reports\n               -Bremer\n                     -Political leanings\n                           -Kennedy connection\n                           -Antiwar connection\n                           -Questions\n          -Questioning\n               -Colson’s view\n          -Further reports\n\nColson conferred with Haldeman at an unknown time.\n\n           -John D. Ehrlichman's Request for a call to Felt\n\n[End of conferral]\n\n           -Ehrlichman's Request for a call to Felt\n           -Rumors\n                 -Bremer's motives\n                 -Political connections\n                       -University of Wisconsin\n                             -Anti-war connection\n                       -Kennedy\n           -Questioning\n                 -Timing\n           -Bremer\n                 -Safety\n                       -Compared with John F. Kennedy assassination\n                 -Questioning\n                       -Reports to the President\n\nThe President conferred with Haldeman at an unknown time.\n\n           -Surgery\n\n[End of conferral]\n\n           -Rumors\n                -Verification\n                      -Edward M. Kennedy\n                            -Felt’s concern\n                -Colson's sources\n           -Bremer\n                -Questioning\n                      -Timing\n                      -Colson’s view\n           -Further reports","filename":["024-109.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:07:56","tapeEnd":"02:14:02","participantsList":["White House operator","Colson, Charles W.","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")","Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Felt, W. Mark"],"prevCode":"024-108","nextCode":"024-110","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon, H.R. Haldeman, and Charles Colson received an update from W. Mark Felt regarding the investigation into the attack on George C. Wallace. Felt confirmed the assailant was Arthur Bremer, provided details about his background and the weapon used, and assured Colson that the FBI was taking full responsibility for Bremer's safety and the investigation, including questioning him as soon as medically possible. Colson relayed rumors about potential Kennedy connections and anti-war radicalism, urging Felt to ensure these avenues were explored during the interrogation.","topics":["George C. Wallace attack","Arthur Bremer","FBI investigation","Assailant's motives","Edward M. Kennedy","Secret Service agent","Bremer's interrogation","Rumors"],"generatedAt":"2026-10-28T16:58:20.998Z"},"topicSlugs":["george-c-wallace-attack","arthur-bremer","fbi-investigation","assailants-motives","edward-m-kennedy","secret-service-agent","bremers-interrogation","rumors"],"audioDurationSec":366,"audioFiles":[{"file":"024-109.mp3","bytes":14647167,"durationSec":366.08,"bitrate":320086,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-10-28T16:44:44.169Z","audioSource":"National Archives Catalog (open data, RN-WHT)","audioSourceUrls":["https://catalog.archives.gov/medialz/presidential-libraries/nixon/rn-wht/17412458/6852475/37-wht-conversation-024-109-pa.mp3"],"catalogNaId":646314534,"originalFilename":["024a.mp3","024c.mp3"],"transcript":[{"start":0,"end":3,"speaker":"Operator","text":"Mr. Mark Felt is calling the President."},{"start":3,"end":5,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Uh, hold on just a moment."},{"start":5,"end":6,"speaker":"Operator","text":"Okay."},{"start":9,"end":14,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Does the President, do you want Mark Felt? Okay."},{"start":14,"end":17,"speaker":"Operator","text":"Hold him on just a moment."},{"start":17,"end":18,"speaker":"Colson","text":"All right."},{"start":23,"end":24,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Put him on to me, please."},{"start":24,"end":25,"speaker":"Operator","text":"All right."},{"start":25,"end":26,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Hello?"},{"start":26,"end":27,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Hello."},{"start":27,"end":35,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Uh Mark, this is Chuck Colson. I'm sitting with the President. He just asked me to take the call. He- Can you give us an update?"},{"start":35,"end":39,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Uh, there's one subject. Right. Since the original reports were that there were three. Right."},{"start":39,"end":47,"speaker":"Felt","text":"The other two were two teenagers who apparently were frightened and were running, and were taken into custody. But they have been released."},{"start":47,"end":49,"speaker":"Colson","text":"So, there's only one subject."},{"start":49,"end":57,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Been released. There's one subject. His name is Arthur Bremer, B-R-E-M-M-E-R."},{"start":57,"end":59,"speaker":"Felt","text":"He's a white male,"},{"start":59,"end":64,"speaker":"Felt","text":"and he's 22 years old. He's from Milwaukee, Wisconsin."},{"start":64,"end":69,"speaker":"Felt","text":"He's here in a car with Milwaukee tags. This is from his driver's license."},{"start":69,"end":72,"speaker":"Felt","text":"He purchased the gun in Milwaukee."},{"start":72,"end":77,"speaker":"Felt","text":"It's a five-shot .38 Special, one of those small models."},{"start":77,"end":77,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Yep."},{"start":77,"end":87,"speaker":"Felt","text":"And, uh, he's in Prince George's Hospital, uh, with mainly contusions from being beat up out there after he shot Mr. Wallace."},{"start":87,"end":87,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Mhm."},{"start":87,"end":92,"speaker":"Felt","text":"No one has talked to him other than the doctors,"},{"start":92,"end":97,"speaker":"Felt","text":"and no one will talk to him except the agents. We will interview him as soon as the doctors give us okay."},{"start":97,"end":104,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Uh, tell the President that we have taken over the responsibility for his safety."},{"start":104,"end":111,"speaker":"Felt","text":"And we'll- we'll have, uh, agents on duty out there in sufficient numbers to ensure that we can handle that."},{"start":111,"end":118,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Tell him that we're taking over the full responsibility for the investigation of the case,"},{"start":118,"end":125,"speaker":"Felt","text":"because we have not only the assault on Wallace, but the assault on the Secret Service agent."},{"start":125,"end":128,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Incidentally, he's out of surgery."},{"start":128,"end":130,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Uh Wallace is?"},{"start":130,"end":134,"speaker":"Felt","text":"No, no, the Secret Service agent."},{"start":134,"end":135,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Oh, the Secret Service agent. Right."},{"start":135,"end":141,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Yeah. And, uh, he's in the intensive care unit, but the indications are that he'll be all right."},{"start":141,"end":142,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Mhm."},{"start":142,"end":144,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Now, that's about the status of it now."},{"start":144,"end":148,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Do you have any indication, Mark, when they will begin the questioning?"},{"start":148,"end":151,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Uh, probably within the hour."},{"start":151,"end":159,"speaker":"Colson","text":"I would, uh, hope that your people would, uh, uh would urge that they be allowed to question as soon as possible and they not be put off on that questioning."},{"start":159,"end":160,"speaker":"Felt","text":"All right."},{"start":160,"end":167,"speaker":"Colson","text":"And I- I assume you ask him a whole gamut of questions including political questions and his views on on other matters and-"},{"start":167,"end":172,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Yes sir. That's right. We'll we'll go the whole route. It's the indication-"},{"start":172,"end":175,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Mark, hold on just a moment. Yeah."},{"start":184,"end":196,"speaker":"Colson","text":"We just, uh, [whispering] Wallace [/whispering] yeah, one of- one of my assistants was was just saying to me that he had had a couple of rumors. One is that that some Kennedy people were involved in that, uh,"},{"start":196,"end":205,"speaker":"Colson","text":"that that this fellow and some of his associates were were Kennedy friends. And, uh, the second report we had is that the fellow is an anti-war radical."},{"start":205,"end":208,"speaker":"Felt","text":"I would think the latter would be more likely."},{"start":208,"end":209,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Yeah, well, I'm sure."},{"start":209,"end":215,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Um, I've heard absolutely nothing about that Kennedy angle, but I'll I'll sure and pass that along."},{"start":215,"end":221,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Well, be sure you be sure you push that, Mark, just to be be certain that they ask those kind of questions, you know, to get that kind of explanation."},{"start":221,"end":222,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Yes sir. All right."},{"start":222,"end":226,"speaker":"Felt","text":"What- what I'll do is be back in 30 minutes with another report."},{"start":226,"end":233,"speaker":"Colson","text":"All right. Give us, I tell you, if for some reason that they can't start the questioning in 30 minutes, let us know that."},{"start":233,"end":234,"speaker":"Felt","text":"All right."},{"start":234,"end":236,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Uh, hold on just a minute."},{"start":243,"end":249,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Yeah, Mark, you can disregard John Ehrlichman's call, because we're we're taking care of it with you right now directly."},{"start":249,"end":250,"speaker":"Felt","text":"All right."},{"start":250,"end":256,"speaker":"Colson","text":"He was going to raise with you these two rumors that we had heard. One, that, uh, anti-war revolutionary from, uh,"},{"start":256,"end":263,"speaker":"Colson","text":"uh University of Wisconsin. The second is that, uh, he'd been involved in some political activities with, uh, with Ted Kennedy and some of Ted Kennedy's people."},{"start":263,"end":269,"speaker":"Colson","text":"So, that- But, I think both of those ought to be checked, because they're, as I'm told by my assistant here, they're they're running rampant as rumors."},{"start":269,"end":276,"speaker":"Colson","text":"But the President wants to be absolutely certain, Mark, that we don't delay in questioning. That's the most important thing, because-"},{"start":276,"end":285,"speaker":"Felt","text":"We'll push it as hard as we can. And also, give him assurance that we're taking the full responsibility for his safety. Now, that's something we don't ordinarily do, but I'm- [crosstalk]"},{"start":285,"end":292,"speaker":"Colson","text":"That is very, very important, because if you remember the, uh, President Kennedy assassination, my God, they got right to him."},{"start":292,"end":295,"speaker":"Felt","text":"That's we do- We don't want that to happen."},{"start":295,"end":303,"speaker":"Colson","text":"No, that must not happen. But the thing that that we really need is some in- information as soon as possible as to, uh, you know, how this, what this guy says."},{"start":303,"end":307,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Now, particularly on these two rumors, I'll I'll have them raise those first."},{"start":307,"end":312,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Raise those early. And the moment you- Are you in direct-"},{"start":312,"end":318,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Be careful on that Kennedy one, not to, uh, not to create an incident, but just know what's happening to draw him out. Uh-"},{"start":318,"end":321,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Yeah. Right, of course. Oh naturally, yeah."},{"start":321,"end":324,"speaker":"Felt","text":"I- I think that's probably pretty wild."},{"start":324,"end":327,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Well, I do, too. But that's, I'm just telling you, those are the two that, uh-"},{"start":327,"end":330,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Well, we'll resolve both of them."},{"start":330,"end":335,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Yeah, my my guy has been talking to all the pressmen in the last hour and those are the two that have been floating."},{"start":335,"end":341,"speaker":"Colson","text":"So, the only thing I the only thing I would do I would hope that if apparently this fellow is not wounded seriously,"},{"start":341,"end":342,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Why no, I don't"},{"start":342,"end":349,"speaker":"Colson","text":"they shouldn't hold up the questioning, because the longer, well, I don't have to tell you, the longer the fellow has to think, the less likely he is to come forward with,"},{"start":349,"end":353,"speaker":"Colson","text":"uh, whatever his motives and objects were in trying to do this."},{"start":353,"end":354,"speaker":"Felt","text":"No question about that."},{"start":354,"end":360,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Well, that just just move with some with, persuade the doctors that you want to get in there and talk to him."},{"start":360,"end":361,"speaker":"Felt","text":"All right."},{"start":361,"end":363,"speaker":"Colson","text":"And give us a report in 30 minutes."},{"start":363,"end":363,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Good."},{"start":363,"end":364,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Great."},{"start":364,"end":364,"speaker":"Felt","text":"Very good."},{"start":364,"end":365,"speaker":"Colson","text":"Thank you. Bye."}],"transcriptCreatedAt":"2026-10-28T12:50:22.284Z","transcriptModel":"google/gemini-3.8-flash","transcriptSource":"audio-llm","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/024-109.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/024-109","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/024/conversation-024-109","catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/646314534","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}